Ep 76 – Nail Your Interview Presentation & Land The Job

Hello and welcome to this week's episode.

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Today we are talking about presentations

during the interview process.

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This is something that we see

people getting their knickers in a

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knot about left, right and centre.

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So people worrying about how long

they should be, how many slides they

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should have, what should they include.

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Trying to second guess

what is wanted or expected.

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So this week we are going to dig

into all of those questions and we

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will get the value of Pam's wisdom.

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So Pam preps people for interview all the

time as part of her job search coaching.

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And this is something that she

works with clients on all the time.

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So Pam.

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In terms of that first question

then, why are presentations used

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as part of an interview process?

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Because people do get a

flap about them, don't they?

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Pam: Yeah, and do you know I love

presentations as part of the interview

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process because as an interviewer, it

allows you to see more of that person.

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Asking people interview questions

is one thing, actually seeing them

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in action, seeing how they respond

under pressure, and also seeing how

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they present their ideas as well.

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Especially if you're recruiting for senior

leadership roles, you want to see how does

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this person potentially present to the

board or how will they present to partners

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or, key stakeholders and things like that.

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So it's a really good opportunity

to see more of that person.

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And I think that I think something, and

I think it's a great way for interviewers

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to see you in those high level situations

and to really find out, in those high

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pressure situations, are you composed?

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Are you a bit scattered?

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Do you get flustered?

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How do you present your ideas and how

compelling is the story that you tell

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as you go through that presentation?

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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They tend to fall into kind of

one or two camps, don't they?

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With presentation, so you'll either get

something along the lines of presenting

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how you're gonna approach the role,

how you're gonna approach your first

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90 days, or you might get something

where it'll give you a scenario that

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might happen within the role and ask

you to present your ideas around that.

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But like you say, in essence, whichever.

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you get asked, it's the same ultimate aim.

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They want to see how you deliver that,

how you communicate, how you show up

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and what they can get from you that they

can't get from just an interview process.

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So what, when you're working with

people then on, on this and they've

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come to you, they've got their

presentation and they're working on

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how to refine it and how to show up

and create that positive impression.

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What are some of the common mistakes

that you see that people need to avoid?

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What is it that people get wrong

when they first come to you?

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Pam: I think the main thing is

overcomplicating the presentation.

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That is the key thing because everybody

goes into it like I've got to have the

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best presentation with the most slides and

give the most value within that session.

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When actually, less is more in that

situation and embracing the simplicity

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of, what you're trying to get across

is probably the best way to, to do

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that presentation, because what you

want to do is show that you can present

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your ideas in a clear and concise

way that is both logical, but also

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really easy to listen to as well.

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And you want to, Have that audience,

on the edge of this seat, wanting to

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hear more about what you're talking

about, getting a real feel for you.

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And I think overcomplicating the

presentation, trying to pack too much

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in, trying to remember everything.

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Like one of the worst mistakes I see

is people putting that much in that

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they can't remember how it flows.

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So they're turning around and reading it.

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Off the board, if it's in person, or if

they're doing it on zoom, they're clearly

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reading it word for word on the screen.

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And that really is off putting and

you want somebody that is going

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to be able to get up there and

really represent you as a company.

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And I think that's what you're

thinking as an interviewer.

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So the first thing is

over complicating it.

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So the opposite of that is going to be.

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be the simplification of it and

making sure that you present your

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ideas in a clear and concise way.

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Jacqui: I love that because one of

the things that makes me When I'm

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recruiting, feel uncomfortable is

when somebody is clearly flummoxed

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at what slide comes next or what, how

many slides have I got to get through?

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And they're panicking about the timing.

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And I remember a friend of

mine was going for an interview

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and was preparing her slides.

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And I can't remember the exact

numbers, but she told me how many

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slides she was planning to have.

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And I was like, no, no

less than half of that.

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People need fewer slides and fewer

prompts than they often think,

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and then they need to deliver

them in the right way, don't they?

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Pam: Yeah, definitely.

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And that leads me to the second one,

which is where people think that they

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need to fill the exact amount of time.

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So if you've got a 15 minutes, 20 minutes,

30 minutes, you don't need to fill every

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single minute you can finish early.

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It's absolutely not okay to go over

that time, but you can finish early.

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And it's more about making sure that

you have got that logical flow and

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story throughout and creating something

and delivering something that takes

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them on a journey through whatever

it is that they've asked you to do.

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And it could be first 90 days.

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It could be, a random task.

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It could be, some kinds of

campaign or project, but you want

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to take them on a journey with

you through that presentation.

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And I think if you focus on filling the

time, you'll be more focused on what

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can I ram into this presentation to fill

up that time rather than thinking what

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actually do I need to take them through.

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Jacqui: Completely echo that.

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I've again, from a recruiter perspective,

I've seen that so many times where

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you can sense that people have jam

packed it and there's so much in there.

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It doesn't have time to breathe.

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You don't get time to really have

the impact of one piece of their

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presentation before they're rushing on

to the next, and it feels so rushed.

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And do you feel like there is a minimum?

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Because I think I would absolutely echo,

you don't have to fill all the time,

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and you definitely shouldn't go over.

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Is there a minimum?

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So if you've been given, say,

20 minutes, is there a minimum

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that you do need to aim for?

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Pam: I think with that, whatever

time you're given, I always say,

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give yourself a five minute buffer.

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So if you're given 15 minutes, your

presentation should be done in 10.

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And that applies for whatever

amount of time that you are given.

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Because if you give yourself

that five minute buffer, if you

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go slightly over, that's fine.

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If you come in slightly under, still fine.

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And then you can open up

for questions at the end.

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Jacqui: Great advice.

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Yeah.

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I wish everybody that had done

presentations and recruitment

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that I'd done and worked with you.

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The number of times I've had to stop

people that are going beyond, or that

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people have just rushed it because

they're panicked about going over

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and then taken up barely any time.

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And you think you could have

given that space to breathe.

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You could have had more impact if

you delivered the same content,

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but in a more relaxed way.

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Pam: Yeah, and that is perfect timing

for the next one, actually, as well,

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because one of the other common mistakes

that I see is people not preparing

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properly, so not practicing, so they

don't know what's coming next, and they

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don't know their material inside out.

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But what you also need to be

thinking about is that you've got

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enough slides to tell the story,

but not too many slides that you

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can't remember what is coming next.

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Whatever it is that you're trying

to get across or deliver within

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that presentation, then each

slide should naturally follow on.

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So if you prepare and you

practice that presentation, you

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should know what's coming next.

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It should be the next part

of what you're talking about.

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It shouldn't ever be disjointed where

you're thinking what is next what's

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coming next, almost like you've got your

clicker or you're pressing the enter

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button and you're thinking, what the

hell is going to come up next like you

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should never ever be in that situation,

even if it's a quick turn around one.

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And that is probably another point if

you are in a situation where it is a

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quick turnaround, then absolutely the

minimum slides that you can use to

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deliver is going to be perfect because

you'll have less time to prepare, less

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time to practice, and you just want to

make it as easy as possible to remember

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and to get that flow absolutely spot on.

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Jacqui: Love that.

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What else can people be mindful

of that can trip them up when

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it comes to presentations?

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Pam: One of the key things that

trips people up is thinking that the

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presentation needs to be interactive

and then starting to have a two way

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conversation and inviting the audience

to ask questions, which potentially take

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them off in a different direction, or

mean that they're covering When they're

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answering those questions that is going

to come later on in the presentation

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that can definitely throw people.

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So I think in terms of making your

presentation interactive, rather than,

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opening the floor too early for questions,

you can think of different ways.

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Maybe do a vote on something maybe

ask for specific answers around

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things, but not necessarily questions.

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Maybe if you're in person, you could

give some kinds of a handout for

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people to look But I would avoid asking

questions and opening the floor before

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you're ready to take those questions.

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Jacqui: And I think that leads

me to a point that people can

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get clarification, can't they?

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If you're not sure on some of the

logistics of how many people are going

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to be there, how many handouts or slides

do I need, some of those things don't

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always get communicated to candidates.

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And when you know them, Then you can

approach it with a bit more confidence.

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Pam: Yeah, definitely.

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And I think that's the thing because

so many people really worry about

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asking for clarification around, what's

going to happen in the day, on the

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day, what will it actually look like?

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What are you expecting?

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What technology is going to be available?

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People are always worried about asking

those questions, and that just adds

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to the stress of actually doing that

presentation, if you find out the

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information in advance, and the best way

to do that is to put all of your questions

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into one email rather than backwards and

forwards with multiple questions like.

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Take yourself through, I always

say visualize the whole process.

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So you land in that room, are

you going to be plugging in your

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memory stick, or are they already

going to have the presentation?

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Are you going to have a chance to

test it before you launch into it?

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Like what is the process,

what is going to happen?

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And almost take yourself through that

journey of that presentation, because

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along the way, then you can go right.

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Okay.

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If I have tech issues.

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What am I going to do?

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So you can always have

a backup with cue cards.

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There's been a time when I tried

to do a presentation and it was a

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different version of PowerPoint.

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So I'd set up the time and

perfectly I'd rehearsed it.

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I knew what slides was coming next.

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I was so happy with, with the flow of it.

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And then I got up and I

pressed the clicker and it just

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flicked through to the end.

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So I was like, Oh, sorry about that.

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Let me try again.

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Put it back to the start, did the

introduction again, press the clicker.

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And again, right through to the end.

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So I just thought, do you know what,

I don't know what is going on here,

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but I had cue cards as a backup.

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And I actually got that offer because

they said, they liked the fact that I

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was unflappable, I had a backup, and I

was able to do the presentation from the

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cue cards and still have the same impact.

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So it's just thinking through every

possible scenario that anything that

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could go wrong, especially when you're

working with technology will go wrong.

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Recently I did a presentation

and when I got up on stage to

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do it, the slides didn't work.

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I had to get off the stage.

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You've got to think about

what, what could happen.

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And when you think about what is the worst

thing that could happen when it happens,

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you're like, okay, I've got a plan.

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And if you haven't got a plan and

you've thought through everything else,

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like you can come up with something

a little bit quicker and, You can get

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back on track faster as well, because

when things go wrong, you can become

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really flustered and that's something

else that they will be observing.

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So it's really important that you think

through all of those scenarios and

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make sure that you've got a plan for

in case any of that stuff does happen.

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Jacqui: We talked about that a couple of

weeks ago on the episode about what to do

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when you screw up at work and that process

of mental rehearsal and letting your

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brain know, if this happens, then do this.

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And for high stakes situations, it's

such a useful piece of advice to think

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about what could those things be?

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What would I do?

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If it did, because like you say,

you're not then relying on your

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brain to try and kick in and give

you logical answers at the time that

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it's happened, your brain is just

reverting to the plan that you'd already

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made before you walked in the room.

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So when people are actually in

the room then, and they're getting

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into delivering their presentation,

what are the things that people

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need to bear in mind at that point?

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What are the things that they

perhaps can't prepare in advance for,

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but do still need to be aware of?

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On the day in the moment.

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Pam: Okay.

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So when you get in there and you are going

through your presentation, there's lots

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of things that are going to be going on.

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You're not going to know the audience.

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You'll have an idea of who they

are, but ultimately you don't

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know, you don't know them really.

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You don't know what their

reaction is going to be.

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You can.

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You can gauge it on the day.

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You can read the room, but also

that's something when you're in

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that situation and you're reading

that room, that's also something

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that can really throw people off.

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So if you're looking at the body language

of the people in the room and you're

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thinking they don't look interested,

they're not looking at me, so you can

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definitely read the room, but you can

also as well prepare yourself for the

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fact that people might be on phones.

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People might be doing things,

taking notes, things that

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you're not expecting them to do.

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And it's almost like you in that

moment, you just need to make a call.

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If you're mid flow of your presentation,

you feel like it's going well, you feel

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like you're getting your story across,

but people aren't really listening.

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then you have to make a call on

whether, are they not listening

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because it's not engaging enough?

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Do I need to change track?

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Or actually, are they

just being really rude?

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And either way, you

need to make that call.

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And that can be quite difficult when

you're mid flow in the presentation and

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you think these people are not interested.

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So it's about also just making

sure that you've got a plan that

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If, people are not seeming to be

interested, then what can you do?

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What can you change it up?

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Do you need to just move

on to the next slide?

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And I think that really links in well

with your preparation as well, because if

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you're fully prepared and you know what's

coming next, if people look like they're

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switching off in certain parts, then

you can always skip on to the next bit.

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But only if you really know

that presentation inside out.

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Jacqui: It's such good advice to be

prepared for some of those unpleasant

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things that do sometimes happen.

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I've known of it with candidates

where people have, like you say,

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been on the phone or started looking

at their laptop or what have you.

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And if you're being charitable, I

guess you never know, these could be,

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especially if you're going for a senior

role, these could be people where

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there are business critical things.

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They want to be involved and they want

to listen to your presentation, but maybe

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something's happened a few minutes before.

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I still don't think it's acceptable and

it's a massive bugbear for me when people

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don't give a good candidate experience.

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But like you say, if you are prepped

and ready and able with that then

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you can adjust to it and you can get

the feel for it rather than making

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meaning of that in that moment and

letting that take you off course.

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So what else do people

need to bear in mind then?

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How do people get to be that wow candidate

when they're delivering a presentation?

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Pam: So I think the key thing for me, and

this is something that is also we've got

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a freebie that you can downloads as well

with with the interview slide pack that

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I use, that I recommend for my clients.

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And I think if you want

to wow, the interviewers.

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In an interview presentation,

the best way to do that is to

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top and tell that presentation.

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And when I say top and tail it, what I

mean is when you start that presentation,

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you want to give them an overview of

you and what you can bring to this role.

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So it's not a copy and paste of your CV.

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It's a few real key hard hitting points

and if you do download the presentation

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slide pack, you'll see how I've set

that out and you just pick some real

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key points that show them what you

can bring to the table right now.

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Before you go into

answering their question.

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Now, the good thing about this is

that the majority of candidates

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are just going to be really focused

on answering the question or doing

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the task that they've been given.

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So you can really give yourself the edge

by starting off with a clear agenda.

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And then talking a little bit about

yourself, there's a couple of key points

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where you can really say, this is what

this is a little summary about me based

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on obviously what you can bring to

the role and then go in to the task.

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Now, regardless of what the task is,

usually you can split that down into

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three key points or four key points.

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And then you would have a slide per point.

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And then at the end of, when you're

finished, When you're finished answering

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the question or completing the task

that they've asked you, then you

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can then finish off the presentation

by talking to them about the things

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that you can bring to the role.

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So you've started off by giving

them a summary about you,

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which obviously highlight some

of the things that you bring.

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And then at the end of the presentation,

then you just reiterate what you can

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actually bring to the role and your

excitement around that role, and

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then you can bring it to a close.

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And open it up for questions.

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And that format has been super successful.

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That's the format that I used for

my own interview presentations.

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And that is what I've been

advising clients to use now

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for probably over 10 years.

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And the feedback that comes back every

time is that, that was really well

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presented, formatted presentation.

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And actually when I've spoken

to people about it in the past.

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What they say is it was a really good

intro because they weren't expecting

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that intro, about the person and the

key points, the key things that make

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them the right person for that role.

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So straight away, it's almost that

mental tick isn't it in the box.

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This person is right for us.

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This person is the right level

for what we're looking for.

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Then The person goes in and answers

the question or completes the task

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and then finishes off by talking

about actually what I can bring to

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this role, what excites me about

this role, and then finishes off.

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And it's like the perfect kind of flow.

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And that is what I believe makes the

candidates that use that format really

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stand out because it takes them on

a journey It gives an insight about

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the person and it's different to what

anybody else does out there because

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not many people will even think about

doing an intro and talking about

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themselves before they get into it.

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And that intro really doesn't need to

be any longer than 30 to 60 seconds.

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Like I'm talking a really short,

snappy intro and the same.

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With the last bit as well, it's the bit

in the middle where you're answering the

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question that's going to give you the bulk

of the presentation, but if you can top

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and tailor, and then also, tell them a

story, take them on that journey to answer

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that question that is definitely going to

make you stand out more than if you just

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tackle the question or the task head on.

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And get through it as quickly as you can.

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And get to the end, open it

up for questions and job done.

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It's take your time, enjoy the process.

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As you're going through the process,

you want to be asking yourself,

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what am I learning about myself?

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What can I take away from this?

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What can I learn from this situation?

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And almost being in the moment,

I think that is the key thing.

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If you approach that presentation and

deliver it in the moment, rather than

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trying to rush through it to get to

the end, because hate presentations

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or you hate interviews generally, you

will you will do yourself a disservice.

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You need to really enjoy that moment and

enjoy taking them through that process.

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Jacqui: Love that advice.

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I'm thinking about candidates

that I've seen and remembered.

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And that's the key thing, isn't it?

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You want your presentation

to be memorable.

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You want those people to

remember you after it.

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And that intro and outro, if you like,

the tops and tails the main part where

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you're addressing just really seeks to

position you as somebody who is confident

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to stand out, comfortable that you're

able to deliver, able to step aside and

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be different and not just follow the exact

brief and instruction that you've been

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given, but do that in a way That links.

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So I'm thinking about a role that

I was recruiting not that long ago.

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And there was essentially that

aspect of somebody really showcasing

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why their previous experience was

going to come out in the ideas

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that they were going to share.

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And I think for me as a

recruiter, it did two things.

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It made the memorable in the

way that you're describing.

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It also made me aware of how they

had shaped their approach to actually

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answering the question and that

took away some of the judgment.

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So I think sometimes the concern that

people can have is particularly if you're

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doing a more technical type, by which

I mean, if you're in marketing, you

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might be asked to create a pro if you're

in marketing, you might be able to.

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If you're in marketing, you might be

asked to create the outline of a campaign.

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If you are in finance, you might be

asked to share how you'd approach

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creating a cashflow forecast, those

kinds of presentations based on some

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information that you've been given to

use to prepare, if you set that context

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first, then I think people are aware of.

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Okay, so this is the angle that person

with that experience is likely to take,

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and it brings people in with you into

the approach that you've taken without

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you having to tell them, this is the

approach I've taken and this is why.

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Pam: Yeah, exactly, and I think that's the

thing, the more you can really get under

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the skin of what they're asking you to do.

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The easier it's going

to be for you to create,

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the easier it's going to be for you to

create your slide pack that takes them

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on that journey and tells that story.

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Now, those examples that you use there

where you're talking about, maybe

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creating a marketing campaign or looking

at cashflow from a finance perspective,

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they can be quite dry topics to try

and create a compelling story from.

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But if you think about what are the

key things that this employer needs

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to know about me to know that I can

hit the ground running in this role,

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that if they said to me tomorrow,

develop this campaign or create that

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cash flow forecast that I could,

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that I could actually hit the ground

running and be able to do that.

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So I think people tend to overthink

these tasks a lot, but actually.

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What it's about is it's about

that employer understanding, your

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thought process and how quickly

could you hit the ground running.

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And, are you calm under pressure

and all of these different

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types of things so if you can.

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break that down.

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So with every single thing that

you're asked to do, there's going

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to be a process that sits behind it.

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Or there's going to be a way that you

can break that down into three or four

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simple steps that you can go through.

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And then if you split up those slides

and do one slide per step with minimal

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bullet points, and even where You can

skip the bullet points and just use an

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image if you can talk around it, but then

you just need to make sure that you have

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practiced the narrative and you know what

you're going to say so that it does flow.

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And if you do have a moment where

you go blank, that you've got some

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kind of prompt, to move you on.

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And I think one of the key things as

well that people forget in a presentation

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is if you don't put it on the slide.

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They don't know if you were

going to say it or not.

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So if you miss some out or you

forget to say stuff, it's not the

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end of the world because they didn't

know you were going to say it.

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And if you put it on the slides

and you don't talk through it

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you've given them that information.

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I think the key thing is don't beat

yourself up over what you didn't do.

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Just focus on.

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Telling that story and really getting as

comfortable as you can in that moment.

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Jacqui: Love that.

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One final question before we wrap

up and I'm really interested in your

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take on this because it's one of

the questions that I see the most.

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Where is the line in terms of people

showcasing their ideas and what they

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can contribute versus being asked to do

free consulting work for a presentation?

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How do you find the.

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How do you find the balance so that you

show what you're capable of, don't end

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up doing a whole load of free consulting

and spending 17 hours doing your.

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Investigations and research to be

able to pull a presentation together.

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So

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Pam: this comes up a lot for marketing

and sales people more than anyone,

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because they're usually asked to

present some kinds of strategy, whether

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that's an overall marketing strategy or

sales strategy or an actual campaign.

445

So I think the key thing

is using your own judgment.

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If you feel like somebody is taking

advantage of your goodwill, and

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usually they will be It just depends

on how much you really want that job.

448

But my advice would always be,

if you think they're taking

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advantage, proceed with caution.

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And even where you don't feel like

they're taking advantage and they're

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absolutely lovely and the whole

process has been amazing, if they are

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asking for stuff that you Do think

borders on being free consultancy.

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The best way to approach that is to just

give an outline in the presentation and

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you can talk through the bulk of what

you want to say in the presentation.

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Because a lot of the time when they

are trying to get free consultancy

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and when they're trying to gather

ideas, what they'll usually do is

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ask you to send the full presentation

over to them either prior to the

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interview or after the interview.

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If you've just given an outline,

that's absolutely fine because then

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they need to then go away and do the

research and put the meat on the bones.

461

Whereas in the interview, you can

take them through that outline.

462

You can give them the, you

can put the meat on the bones.

463

You can give the context behind each

point, but you're protecting yourself

464

and you're giving them at the same

time, what they need to see from you

465

to know if you're the right candidate.

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Jacqui: I think.

467

When you're in that situation, it

can also be tempting to feel like

468

they're asking for free consulting,

and sometimes they are, sometimes

469

they're being really cheeky, and like

you say, need to proceed with caution.

470

Sometimes it can also be

inexperienced recruiters.

471

It can be that a hiring manager has been

asked to Decide what they need to see

472

a presentation as part of a recruitment

process, and they've not been given

473

guidance, and they don't know how to

understand what somebody is capable of

474

without asking them to do a piece of work.

475

And in a similar scenario, I always

advise candidates, it's, we want to see

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your workings, it's not about judging

or critiquing your ideas, we don't

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need to see lots of specific tactical

ideas, what we need to understand

478

is, If you were given this type of

a brief, how would you go about it?

479

So again, you can ask for that

clarification and say to a potential

480

employer, I've seen and read the

brief that you've given that would

481

take an awful lot of research.

482

I don't have the internal context

to be able to provide ideas

483

that I know would be right.

484

I take it what you need me to do is

to demonstrate my approach and how

485

I would fulfill that kind of brief.

486

I think you can still

throw in a couple of ideas.

487

Again, if you're in marketing,

it could be that you research and

488

give some examples of the types

of topics to cover in blogs or.

489

mock up a social media post or two,

the idea of actually going into

490

depth and giving all of that away,

both of us would definitely say,

491

do not put yourself in that boat

because that is really unnecessary.

492

And if you ask that question of.

493

I take it you want me to show my

workings and they're saying no, we

494

really want all of this specifics.

495

Then I would say that's red flag time.

496

It's time to potentially withdraw

because they are using that recruitment

497

process unfairly for free consulting.

498

Pam: Yeah, definitely.

499

And I think the key thing as well if

you are, if you've got an interview

500

presentation coming up and you want

to download the slide pack, we've,

501

we're going to put the link in the

show notes so that you can do that.

502

And the presentation should take

you no more than an hour to do.

503

You, and that includes, your research

time you should be able to pull

504

together the simple outline of

the presentation within an hour.

505

Obviously, as you go through and you

prepare and you practice, then you might

506

add a few things to it, you might take

a few things out, but the best way to

507

approach it is to look at the task in

hand, set yourself a timer for 60 minutes.

508

and work through do the research

that you need to do and then

509

pull the slides together.

510

You can always go back and jazz up

the slides and amend them and there's

511

some instructions there around like

branding up the slides to make sure

512

that, they're in line with the company

branding that you're interviewing at and

513

all of that kind of stuff, but you don't

want to be spending hours and hours,

514

like an hour to do your initial setup.

515

And then a couple of hours practice

time, don't want to be spending days

516

and days on this and if you feel

like you need to, then that's where

517

you need to be asking yourself, are

they asking too much or actually, am

518

I trying to put too much into this?

519

Jacqui: Brilliant advice.

520

And if you're listening to this,

because you are in the process of,

521

Preparing a presentation for part of a

recruitment, then as Pam said, we will

522

put the link to be able to download

that slide pack with the associated

523

instructions in the show notes.

524

And also if you do need that

support to make sure that you

525

can ace the presentation, it

is one of Pam's superpowers.

526

So you can book a leadership.

527

No.

528

So you can book a presentation preparation

power hour, too many P's in that one.

529

You can book a power hour to work with

Pam on preparing and making sure that

530

you really can deliver that presentation

in a way that's memorable and that gets

531

you noticed for all the right reasons.

532

So the link to directly book in with

Pam is in the show notes as well.

533

Thank you as ever for listening.

534

Please do share this if there are

friends, colleagues, people that you

535

know who are in that preparation zone.

536

Maybe they're at first stage of

interview and this could be useful for

537

them if they get invited to a final

stage and please do rate and review

538

on your favorite podcast platforms.

539

It helps us to get seen and get heard by

people who need to hear these episodes.

540

Thanks for listening and we

will catch you again next time.