Ep 77 – Using Personal Brand to Unlock Career Success

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode.

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Today, we are talking about how

you can use your personal brand

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to unlock career opportunities.

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And when we were thinking about this

episode and what we were going to talk

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about, Jackie shared the amazing pie

theory, which I'd actually not heard

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about until we started talking through

it, but it's actually a really good

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framework that you can use to support you

in basically shaping your personal brand

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and using it to progress in your career.

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So I'm just going to go straight over

to Jackie and say, tell us what the pie

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theory is, because I absolutely loved it

when she talked me through it earlier.

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So I'm sure you'll all enjoy it.

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Enjoy hearing about it, Tim.

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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And I love it as well.

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And it's, I love the simplicity of it.

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I love the fact that it's really

straightforward and also it often

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really helps some light bulbs ping for

people about if they've had frustrations

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about maybe why aren't they getting the

opportunities they want or why are they

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seeing people who they don't perceive

as being that amazing and they seem to

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have all these amazing opportunities

answers some of those questions.

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Pie theory is the theory that there are

three elements to career success developed

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back in the nineties by an American

author, and he ascribes a chunk of your

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career success to each of three areas.

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So your P in pie is performance, and this

is an area where typically people like

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to think that if you perform well, you're

going to progress, you're going to get on.

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So people will get their heads

down, be performing well, and then

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be like, well, this is annoying.

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Why am I not getting the opportunities?

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And in this theory, he only ascribes 10

percent of career success to performance.

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And we'll come back to

investigate why that is and

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talk a bit more about it later.

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But the kind of key light bulb

for people in that it's Oh, okay.

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That's only 10%.

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What are the other things?

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And the I and the E he talks about

image and exposure and the way that

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he describes them is that image is

your personal brand effectively.

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It's what other people think of you.

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It's how consistently other

people think that of you.

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And he would reckon that it's roughly

about 30 percent of your career success

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that comes from your reputation, which

leaves a whopping 60 percent coming from.

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exposure.

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This is about how you effectively

bring together your performance and how

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you're performing with your personal

brand and how other people perceive

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you and amplify that by being more

visible, making sure that more people

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know of you, know of that reputation.

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So that you are then front of mind

and so that you create more of

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those opportunities for yourself.

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So once people start to get their heads

round, A, the proportions of these as

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part of the model, but B, what they

actually mean, then it puts them back in

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the driving seat to be able to be really

intentional about how they want to create

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career opportunities for themselves.

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Pam: Yeah, that's so

interesting, isn't it?

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And especially the bit around performance,

because we see so many people, don't

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we, who are just head down, In the

day job, just , you know, working

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through those to do lists and trying

to be the best performer and trying

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to stand out through performance.

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But what you're essentially saying

with this is that performance is

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like the smallest part of career

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Jacqui: progression.

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It really is.

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And when I describe it to people, so

a lot of my leadership development

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work, I just say that it's it's

what I needed when I was 27.

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It's the stuff that when I first got

that promotion into a leadership role,

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this is the stuff that I needed to know.

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And I think I was pretty typical

at that kind of stage of my career

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in that I got that opportunity.

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My own perception at that time was

that was because of my performance.

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So I believed that the opportunities

had happened because I'd performed well.

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And to a degree, I kind of

ascribed some of it to luck.

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I went into a fast growing company

and that gave me a real opportunity

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as the company grew to be able to grow

with it, which not everybody gets.

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But essentially.

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What that meant was then later in my

career, I had some of those frustrations

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and I would say things like, I don't

want to play the politics game.

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It's tiring.

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I don't want to have to seek to impress.

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And, the idea of exposure, when

I described the model to people

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are just Oh, it just feels icky.

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It feels like, , you've got to be one

of those people that's constantly on

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LinkedIn talking up how amazing you are.

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And that doesn't feel very true to me.

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But what this model really is when

you get under the skin of it is a

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really practical way to understand.

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And like you say, that

performance element, it's,

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it doesn't differentiate you.

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It's assumed that people are performing.

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So it therefore stops being

something that sets you apart and

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just puts you as someone is the

way I've described it before is

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it's a ticket to get to the show.

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It's not the winning ticket with

all the extravaganza attached.

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Pam: Yeah, It's for most people, I think

that will be a fairly new concept and a

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new way of thinking and possibly a new

way of working because for most people it

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is all about the performance, isn't it?

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And this, I'm just thinking, people stay

in jobs for longer than they need to,

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longer than they should, because they're

just trying to get that little bit more.

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More experience.

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They're trying to show that

they can perform that a little

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bit better all of the time.

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So actually what you're saying here

is that as this is a small part of it,

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there is more to this and the focus

should probably be shifted to the

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areas that are going to count for more.

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I suppose the next part of that is

the image and perception, isn't it?

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So how does that play in?

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So if the performance is only a smaller

part, the image and perception then,

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which is probably one of the harder parts

that I would have thought, how can people

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use that to, to grow and to progress?

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Jacqui: This really is about

understanding that image and perception.

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I think people often, and we talked

about it when we did the episode on

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personal brand as a leader, but image

and perception, I think people often

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feel like, Oh, it's quite manipulative.

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I don't really feel comfortable

trying to create an image or a

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perception of me in a certain way,

or I don't know how to go about it.

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And what I say to people when I'm

talking through this model is.

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You can either have an image that's

created by design and intentionally

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and take actions in order to create

the reputation that you want to have

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or it will happen by accident because

everybody has a reputation, everybody

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has a personal brand and if you leave

it to chance, what you tend to find

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is that there's inconsistencies.

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So you will find that you will naturally

have one type of reputation with

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people that you work closely with.

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And I find that people in leadership

roles often base a lot of what

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they think their reputation is

on what their team would say.

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And that's admirable to a degree because

it's important to make sure that you are

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considering how do your team perceive you?

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If you've got to lead them you want

them to consider you in a positive

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light and to be willing to follow

otherwise you're not much of a leader.

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It's not enough to see it

in that narrow perspective.

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You've got to think about what are

some of those broader perspectives.

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So the things that my team would

then can perceive about me.

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Is that the same as what my peers

and colleagues would perceive as me?

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Is that the same as what other

people within the organization?

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And then broader than

that within the industry.

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So you've got things like, what do

clients or suppliers think of, or, what's

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their understanding or beliefs about you

based on their interactions with you.

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When you are looking for roles, there's

having that perception that you create

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with recruiters that you might come

across or, headhunters, depending on what

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level of role that you're aspiring to.

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And.

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It's about that kind of consistency

and how do you create this same

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impression so that you are known

for something and so that there is

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consistency in the way that those

varying groups of people experience you.

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They will experience you still

in different contexts, but

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fundamentally would they all

get the same kind of impression.

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And when you think of it like that, I

think it feels far less manipulative

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than this idea of, oh, I've got to manage

my image, manage how people perceive

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me can feel quite kind of political.

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But when you think of it more in

terms of how do I create the degree of

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consistency so that people's experience

and perception is similar, even if I

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don't have huge amounts to do with them.

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Or even if, they are somebody

external as opposed to somebody that

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I work with day in, day out on my

team, how do I get to that place?

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Pam: Yeah, and that,

that's, that is so true.

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And I suppose as well, like when you

first started talking through image and

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perception, Like the place I go to is

thinking about being suited and booted

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and, creating this really smart image

and, showing people by how I dress, how I

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come across and all of that kind of stuff.

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And then my mind then goes to

the impact on my bank balance

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and all that kind of stuff.

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But it's not really about, is

it like that kind of image?

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Jacqui: It's, that would form an element

of it, so people will kind of form

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perceptions, but that's not really

the substance of it, that, again,

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that's a bit like with performance,

where that's a smaller element.

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Some people will, for example, express

themselves very clearly in terms of

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their public image, some people will

always wear bright colors or we'll

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have, a really bright hair color.

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Some people will be suited and booted

and be super smart wherever they go.

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Others will have, more casual.

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And this is not saying A professional

you should try and think and act and show

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up and dress and behave in the way of

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You know what I mean?

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It's, this is very different than that.

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This is about finding ways that are true

to you that are not trying to copy or

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emulate other people, but that are just

things that you do in line with Who you,

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what you want to be known for, like I

say, it's that difference between it

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happening by accident and you leaving it

to chance based on people's interaction

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with you or you being really aware of,

okay, this is what, and a question that

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I often ask people is, okay, when you

move on from this role that you're in

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maybe two to three years, if you're

doing a handover, passing the baton

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on to somebody else, at that point,

what do you want to have accomplished?

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What do you want to be remembered for?

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And.

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Again, we talked about that in the

episode on personal brand as a leader,

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but it's really pertinent to this

as well, because it's about getting

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really intentional with behaving in

ways that create that impression.

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Pam: Yeah.

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I love that because when you do think of

personal brands and image and perception,

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I know for me, the first thing I'll

think of is, what am I going to wear?

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How do I come across and things like that?

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And it obviously is a lot deeper than

that, but I do think you're right with

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the stereotypes and, those almost like

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a lot of people will go to because that

is like what society teaches us, isn't it?

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But one of the things that I was just

thinking of is as you were talking

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through that, in order to understand

what your team think about you, your

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peers, your suppliers, all of those

external stakeholders and people that

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you're working with on a daily basis,

like how do you come across to them?

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I think it takes a huge amount

of self awareness as well.

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And I think as part of thinking about

your personal brand and all of this stuff

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that links in to personal brand, I think

self awareness is absolutely crucial.

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Jacqui: You're so right.

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It really is.

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And often I think people will feel a

little bit uncomfortable about that

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self awareness because if you are

then effectively what you can create

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when you become more self aware is

you can create a situation where you

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notice things that need to change.

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You might notice those inconsistencies

or you might notice from the way

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people interact with you that you

haven't created the same impression

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over here as you have over there.

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And I think sometimes.

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There can be a temptation to avoid

that degree of self awareness

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because it can feel painful.

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And that is natural and it's

understandable, but equally,

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that knowledge is power.

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And once you realize how those

things differ, then you can start

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to get underneath the skin of it.

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So it's about doing that, but

not beating yourself up about it.

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If you haven't been intentional

about creating that perception

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in others, then why would it be

all consistent and all the same?

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And it's unlikely to

be in the early stages.

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So that self awareness is a good thing.

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It's good to understand that it can

feel a little bit uncomfortable.

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It's good to do it anyway.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And I think one of the things that you

mentioned as well, when we were talking

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before we started recording around

reputation and that your reputation

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needs to be true to you and who you are.

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And it's not just about

setting a perception based on

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what you think you should be.

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or what you think others expect you to

be, but almost deciding on what is right

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for you and then choosing the behaviors

and actions that feel right to you.

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The ones that you can then

run with all of the time.

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And I feel like that self awareness

piece links in really nicely with that

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because it's being self aware enough

to know that You are being you that

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you are showing up as you and asking

for the feedback and making the changes

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that you need to make along the way to

be the best version of you, rather than

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just trying to emulate somebody else.

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Jacqui: Yeah, and I was working

with a client recently who's

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not long started the new role.

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And one of the things that we were

talking about was this kind of thing

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of, okay, so what's important to you, as

you're having these induction meetings,

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as you are in this new situation.

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And What are the things that

you want people to notice?

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And you want people to remember about you.

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And a lot of that came back to

things like, personal values,

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your own character traits, your

personality, and your preferences.

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It's not going to work, if you are

a huge introvert and you feel like

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you want to create this impression

of you as a charismatic extrovert,

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that isn't going to be true to you.

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And there's going to be a real

disconnect because people will be able

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to tell that you are acting a part.

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None of us is as good an

actor as we think we are.

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Whereas when you lean into,

okay, so this is who I am.

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This is, and I think it's

separating for me, it's separating.

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Your personality and your preferences

and what comes naturally versus you

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can build the skills of communicating.

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We did the episode on

how to be more assertive.

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That's not saying that, everybody

needs to go out and start being

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riding roughshod over the people.

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The whole point there was there

are behavioral skills that can

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allow you to create an impression

of being more assertive.

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Without changing your personality.

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And I think that's really applicable

to, to this situation as well, where

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your image has to be true to you.

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And like you say, that self awareness

piece of who are you at your core?

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What are your values?

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What matters to you?

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What are your own strengths?

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What are your talents and how

does that all fit with how you

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want to create that impression?

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It's going to be so much easier to

do it when you find a way that is

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true to you, but it does need some

upfront thinking and self awareness.

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Pam: Yeah, definitely.

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And I think once you've decided on what

all of that looks like, or you're at least

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starting to work through that, I suppose

the next thing then is leveraging the

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exposure and the visibility, isn't it?

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What is the best way

to go about doing that?

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Jacqui: I would imagine there's

a fair few people out there

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that potentially are thinking.

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So I ran a group session

on this topic last week.

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And quite a few heads of and

director level people, and one of

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the things that came out from that

conversation was a fair few were like.

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Okay.

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Now I see where the gap is

because actually I do feel

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that I'm pretty consistent.

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I do feel that I know myself fairly well.

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I do feel that I'm true to myself

and I'm definitely I'm performing the

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bit that's missing is the exposure.

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And this is the area where essentially

what you're doing is bringing together

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your performance and you're using

visibility to widen the circle of people

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who have a belief in your potential.

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So if you've got that, image bit right,

and you're true to yourself, and you're

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comfortable with that, and you're still

not getting opportunities, there's a

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very good chance that what you haven't

been intentional about is creating.

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So I talk about create opportunities,

don't wait for opportunities.

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And I think this is what the exposure

and visibility piece is all about.

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It's understanding where are the

opportunities, where are the ways that

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I can know, knowing what my image is,

knowing what people's perception is.

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How can I utilize that to get that

message to a wider circle of people?

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Because if 10 people know that.

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Who I am and what I'm about and what

I'm capable of and believe in me,

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then I'm relying on one of those 10

people being aware of an opportunity.

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If a thousand people know, then

suddenly I've magnified the number

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of people who might bear me in mind.

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And the very simplest thing that

often comes up here is I will say to

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people, okay, how many people in your

current organization know that you

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want to progress and know what kind

of role you want to progress into?

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And there's suddenly a shocked look and

silence normally in response to that.

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Because a lot of people are not very

good at being explicit about what

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they want in terms of progression.

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They worry that, they might

be seen as a flight risk.

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They worry that people might think

they're too big for their boots.

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All of these kinds of things.

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And also there is that element as well

of they rely on that performance bit

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and their image and think that's enough.

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But actually you've only got 40 percent

of your career success covered with those.

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So this is the final element.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And it's an interesting one that isn't

because this is something that comes up

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for quite a few of my clients as well

when they're looking for new roles,

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because a lot of the time they will

discount those internal promotions.

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Simply because they don't want people

to know that they're looking to move

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or they're looking to move upwards

and is really simple, isn't it?

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You don't have to let people think

that you're looking for a new job

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or anything, but you can just simply

start talking about your career

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plans, your ambitions, how you'd like

to help drive the business forward.

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You can mention it to your own manager.

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You can mention it to their managers.

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You don't have to keep it to yourself.

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You don't have to always look outside.

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And I think a lot of people overlook

internal promotions because they're

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worried about people they work with,

find out that they want to move on.

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Jacqui: And not even necessarily even

promotions, sometimes there are other

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opportunities for equivalent roles that

will expand your skill set, that will

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give you more variety or more flexibility

or different opportunities and just

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really refresh and bring back to life

this sense of it's not Groundhog Day,

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I'm not doing the same thing waiting

for the next, the next opportunity.

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But if you haven't told people that

this is what I'd like, then you

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can't be surprised that they don't

come offering it to you on a plate.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And that's the truth of it, isn't it?

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And I know like from my own career, as

soon as I started putting it out there,

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what I wanted, the opportunities did come.

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I mean, Now I think one of the things

that I found as well as the opportunities

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that were presented to me when always

the opportunities that were right for me.

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And I think it's easy isn't it to

sometimes get wrapped up in that

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and get a little bit excited.

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So it is about making sure that when you

thinking about this and going through

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it that you get that clarity of where

you want to go, so that you almost go

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through a process when somebody offers

you or present you with an opportunity.

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You can go right.

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Does this fit in with my career plan?

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Does this fit in with where I want to go?

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Is this going to benefit me or is this

going to benefit, them or the business

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and almost go through that process

map of is this the right thing for me?

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And then you can make

a decision around that.

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And you can also feel great that,

people are starting to listen and,

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that's starting to present you with

these opportunities that had you

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not said anything, had you not shown

how ambitious you were, you would

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never have heard of these things.

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Jacqui: Absolutely.

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And I think, that's telling people

what you're keen for is just the

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very tip of the iceberg for so many

other ways to build that kind of

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exposure and to be more visible.

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With, again, So many of these

are really simple things.

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So it can be things like approaching

people, whether that's internally

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or externally, who you would see

in a bit of a mentor capacity.

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So that could be somebody that has made

the type of career steps that you'd

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like to make, and you just approach

them and say, Can I ask, I can see that

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this is what you've done in your career.

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I'd really like to create

more of those opportunities.

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Do you have any advice for me?

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And that doesn't have to be a

big thing or asking people for an

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ongoing mentoring relationship.

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It can be as simple as, have

you got any advice for me?

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Be specific if you're going to do it.

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Because if you just say, I'm

really, I really admire you.

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And I think you've had a great career.

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Have you got any advice that kind

of it's too general our old favorite

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specificity so be specific if you're

asking for guidance or advice.

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But also it could be, if it is somebody,

if you're in a bigger organization,

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especially, who's maybe had exposure

to a different area or who you think

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actually they do this thing really well.

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We've talked before about coffee

chats and, approaching somebody and

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just saying, would you mind if I

bought you a coffee and I'd really

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love to hear about this thing.

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People love being thought of well and love

the fact that you are looking up to them

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and wanting to listen to their advice.

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They won't always have loads of time,

they might not respond, that's fine.

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If they don't, you're still no worse off

than where you are, but if they do, then

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potentially you've got some real gold

nuggets and you've put yourself on their

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radar as somebody who shows initiative,

is ambitious, wants an opportunity.

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So there is no lose as far as I'm

concerned from those kinds of things,

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and then you've got things like,

taking on more projects or, more

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high profile projects, offering to

speak in front of, the board or copy.

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An annual conference or something like

that, those types of things that get

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your name, your team, your work in front

of more people can be really invaluable

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because at some point in the future,

if they're talking about a career path

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or progression or wanting to retain

you and your name comes up and people

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have heard of you and know, have that

memory, they're much more likely to

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buy into that than if it's just a job.

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If you're just relying on your boss to, to

sell you to the rest of the organization.

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Pam: Yeah, I love that.

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So give us your final thoughts then on

the pie theory, because I think this is

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for ambitious leaders and managers, like

this is going to be pretty game changing.

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If you can get under the skin

of this and really use it to

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drive your career forward.

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So what would you say are the

key points to think about?

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Jacqui: So I think if I were to describe

it in a nutshell as a takeaway message,

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it would be you get paid for your

performance, but you get career success

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and further opportunities based on other

people's assessment of your potential.

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So look at how you can influence that.

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And that's where you're going to

create the types of opportunities

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that you might feel frustrated

you're not getting right now.

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Pam: Amazing.

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And if you are listening and you are

preparing for a promotion yourself, you

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starting to think about it, or if you're

in a new leadership role and you feel like

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you could do with some support around that

to really grow within that role then do

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get in touch with us because under our

Catalyst Careers brand, we do provide

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group workshops and one to one support.

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And then you can also speak to

Jackie on an individual basis too.

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So get in touch if this sounds

like the type of support that you

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might need, and we'll be able to

provide all of the information

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and different options available.

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So thank you for listening

to this week's episode.

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As usual, please do share it with

anybody that you think might find

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it useful or anybody that you know,

that's not heard of the podcast, yet.

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And don't forget to rate and review

us on your favorite podcast platforms.

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The more you do it, the more people

will hear about us and be able

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to listen to the podcast as well.

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And as usual, we will be back

next week with another episode.