Ep 72 – What to Do When You Screw Up at Work

Hello and welcome to this week's episode.

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Today we are talking about making mistakes

because we know that we all make them

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and how we handle them really impacts

us as leaders and just in general.

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So what we're going to do today is

we're going to talk about some of

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the best practices and we're going

to talk about how you can own your

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mistakes and overcome them and really

get underneath of what went wrong

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and what you can do going forward.

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So you can kick us off, Jacqui.

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What do you do when you make a mistake?

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Jacqui: I think even before we talk

about that, it's important to just

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normalize that people do make mistakes.

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I think, for so many people, it feels,

if you make a mistake I've worked in

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HR the worst possible feeling is that

thing of somebody sent an email out

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with everybody's salary on, and in

every company I've worked for, either

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someone's done it or someone's known of

someone that's done it somewhere else.

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And so you always have mistakes

will always happen, but like you

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say, it's how that, how you handle

that, that really defines you.

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And I think that's a really important

point to make because the kind of

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prevailing message out there and the

feeling that we have is that there's

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something wrong with us if we make a

mistake and that's just not the case.

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I think just normalizing the fact

that mistakes happen and that people

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do make them is really important and

it doesn't say anywhere near as much

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about you as it does the way you

handle the mistakes that you make.

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Pam: Yeah, and that is a really good point

because I think we're so worried about

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making mistakes, but the only way that

we're actually going to learn anything

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is to make mistakes, to learn from them,

and then to move on from them as well.

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I think you're right.

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We do need to normalize that

it's okay to make mistakes.

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I just feel like we live in a

time and a place where, you know,

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making mistakes isn't something

that is actively encouraged.

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And when it happens, it does tend

to feel like the end of the world.

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And you go through so

many emotions, don't you?

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When you make a mistake, just the

thought now of, some of the things that

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happened, back in my corporate days,

and it makes you feel sick and you

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worry about your reputation and what

are people going to think about me?

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And you just spiral, don't you?

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And it's so hard, but it's

almost owning it, isn't it?

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And saying, yeah, I am going to

make mistakes because I am human.

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It doesn't define me as a person.

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Jacqui: And almost as well, pushing

it further even, I would argue.

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If you haven't made mistakes, if you

haven't had things go wrong, if you

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haven't had a time where what you hoped

for and wanted hasn't been the outcome

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that you've got, you're not pushing hard

enough, you are not stretching yourself.

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Because if you've genuinely never made

mistakes, you are spending your entire

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time operating within your comfort

zone, within the bounds of what you're

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already capable of and able to do

and confident to be able to deliver.

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So I would argue that actually if you look

back the last 12 months and can't think

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of any mistakes, then question yourself

of, am I operating in my comfort zone?

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Am I not putting myself out there enough?

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Am I not pushing, and that can

be for other reasons as well.

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It can be for, overwhelm and

workload and what have you, but.

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Yeah.

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For me, it's that piece of

just acknowledge that we are

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meant to learn from mistakes.

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We're meant to get things wrong.

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We're meant to get outcomes

that we didn't hope for.

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And if you don't ever have that, then

you're keeping yourself playing small.

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Pam: Yeah.

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That is actually a really good

point because you, if you are

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operating in your comfort zone, Then

you're not going to make mistakes.

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You're not going to grow.

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You're not going to push

yourself to that next level.

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And I do think that making the odd mistake

through growth or just through generally,

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making a mistake is actually okay.

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And what I always ask myself and

things that I'll always reflect on

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or things like, what did I learn?

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from this?

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What will I do differently going forward?

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And I suppose it's always about

looking for the learning, isn't it?

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Like when you make that mistake,

like what am I learning right now?

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What, what did I learn?

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Even if we're looking back and

reflecting on mistakes that we've

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made, it's what did I learn?

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I think most people bury mistakes.

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I don't think people.

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To reflect on mistakes.

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I could be wrong.

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I could just be talking from my

own opinion my own perspective.

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But I think if you make a mistake,

human nature is to bury it, get rid

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of it quickly, not think about it

again, hope that we can, do some

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damage limitation and just quickly

move on from it and forget about it.

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But that is where I think we're

making a huge mistake because it's a

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great opportunity to learn, isn't it?

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Jacqui: Love that point.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's certainly not just you.

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I definitely have been in that place

and there's good reason for it.

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So your brain wants to keep you safe.

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And when you experience that kind

of heart in mouth moment where

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you just Oh God, what's happened?

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You recognize that you've, something's

gone wrong, the natural instinct, your

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brain wanting to keep you safe will

want to distance you from it, it will

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want to hide it, bury it, turn away

from it, not reflect on it, because

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reflecting on it brings up those

uncomfortable feelings and emotions again.

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So we are wired to want to try and avoid

those uncomfortable, unpleasant emotions.

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But you're absolutely right in itself.

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That is a huge mistake because then you

don't, you've still made the mistake and

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you haven't got the learning from it.

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Pam: Yeah, and I suppose

that's the issue, isn't it?

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Because if we can make mistakes

and learn and grow, then,

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we'll make different mistakes.

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We'll make better mistakes maybe in the

future as we are learning and growing.

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So I suppose that the key thing is when it

happens and it feels rubbish, doesn't it?

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When you have that realization

that you've made a mistake and you

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think, what the hell have I done?

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And you, I think you, you go

into panic mode, don't you?

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And you can't think straight

and all of these things start

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running through your mind.

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What are people going to think?

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What can I do?

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How can I fix it?

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Who's being impacted?

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Who's being affected?

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All of that stuff starts running

through your head and then.

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All of a sudden you can't think straight.

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You don't know how to fix it.

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And it's like, what do you do?

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Because sometimes I think when it

happens in work, especially you

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can't always talk to people about it.

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You haven't always got that

person that you can confide in

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or help you get it back on track.

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So what would you say the first thing

when you realize that and you start

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spiraling and feeling like the worst,

it's the worst thing in the world.

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What is the first thing that you would do?

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Jacqui: For me, the part of the, my

coaching framework when I'm talking

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about people as leaders is this, the

three options and three different ways

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that people need to show up as leaders.

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So you've got to lead yourself,

you've got to lead others, and

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you've got to lead the business.

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And lead yourself always comes

first, because until you are leading

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yourself well, you can't lead others

well, you can't lead the business.

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So job number one is you've got to

get yourself from that emotional

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state where all of that spiraling is

happened, is happening, where your

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focus is on how terrible it feels that

you've made this mistake and you've

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got to calm your nervous system and

get yourself to a place where you

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can then start to think logically.

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So, do not make Decisions do not rush

into things when you recognize that you're

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feeling those emotions, you've got to take

a breath and manage your own reaction to

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it, and then you can start to move to the

logical steps and the logical steps become

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quite obvious once you have calm yourself.

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First of all you've got to acknowledge

that it's happened and you've got to

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then understand, like you said, what

are the consequences of this mistake?

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You need to admit it and take

responsibility, but sometimes

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people will try and do that.

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And then the first thing that happens is

that somebody asks you the question of.

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What are the consequences, who's

impacted, all those other questions

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that you just rattled through.

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And so if you admit it and take

responsibility before you've given

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any thought to those things, you can

actually make the situation worse

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because you lose other people's

faith in you, but you don't have the

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ability to be in a place where you

can be part of a potential solution

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or fix or, rectify what's happened.

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So I would always say, don't admit

it and take responsibility and

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apologize necessarily immediately.

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Often, some of that other rational

thought needs to come first.

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So what is the mistake, what are

the consequences, who's impacted,

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and if you can, what would need to

happen to rectify it, are all good

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helpful thoughts before you tell other

people that you've made that mistake.

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Sometimes you have no choice,

sometimes other people know

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at the same time that you do.

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In an ideal world, if you become aware

of something and you know that you're

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going to have to fess up to it, do

some of that logical thinking first.

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Pam: Yeah, and I suppose as well, even

if it's sprung on you, even if other

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people know at the same time, or even if

somebody else brings it to your attention

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and you just think, oh my goodness, and

it again is taking that breath, isn't it?

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Taking that minute and even

just saying to somebody.

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Or, whoever's brought it to your attention

or whoever's looking for answers, let

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me have a look at this and come back

to you so that you can explore what's

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happened, where it's gone wrong, and

come up with some potential solutions.

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Obviously, depending on how business

critical it is, you might need to do

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that faster, you might have a little

bit more time, but you do need to push

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back and say let me just look into

this and let me see what happened.

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And almost suppose creating that process

before you've even made a mistake.

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So if you're thinking, I've

not made a mistake in a while

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and I dread making mistakes.

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This is a really good time if

you're listening to the podcast

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now to think, okay what would I do?

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What would be my thought process?

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And you can then have that

process ready to kick into action.

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Should you make a mistake going forward?

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And it's almost then I feel if you've

got a plan, if you make a mistake.

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It makes it easier to go through

that process and it makes it easier

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to push forward and do the things

that aren't as comfortable because

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if you make a mistake, it's okay.

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You know what you're going to do.

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You know how you can rectify that.

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Jacqui: It's brilliant advice and

it comes back to how our brains

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work because what you're describing

is a process of mental rehearsal.

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And the whole point of that is

exactly, as you say, that then when

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the situation happens for real, then

you've got a plan, your brain knows.

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I remember years ago when I was tiny, I

got lost twice in a supermarket and my

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parents taught me, if you can't see us

walk along the middle section and look

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left and look right into the aisles and

just keep doing that until you see us.

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You will always see us.

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So the next time it happened,

my brain had that advice.

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So that's what I did.

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So instead of ending up bawling my eyes

out at customer services like I had

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before, I'm then, my brain's got a plan.

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And that's such good advice for

so many different situations, but

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particularly because making mistakes

brings up all of that emotional

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stuff, having a plan for things that

could bring up a lot of emotion is

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incredibly valuable because then it

does kick in exactly as you describe.

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So yeah it's brilliant advice.

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And I think it's really helpful

for people to reflect on and to go,

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okay, what mistakes could happen?

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What have other people done?

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What else has happened?

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What's the worst thing that could happen?

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And if it happened, what would I do?

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Pam: Yeah.

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And I think that is the point, isn't it?

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If it does happen what will I do?

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And I suppose one of the senior leaders

that I used to work for quite a few

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years ago, his kind of philosophy

on making mistakes was fail fast,

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but let's just keep moving forward.

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Because, if we are going to grow as

people, if we're going to grow businesses,

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if we're going to really drive things

forward, then mistakes are inevitable.

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They're going to happen.

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And I absolutely love that advice

where he said fail fast, because

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what he was basically saying was, I

know you're going to make mistakes.

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And I know that things

are going to happen.

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But if you do that, if you go through

the process, you fail fast, you learn

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from it and we keep moving forward, that

is how we're going to grow the business.

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And that creates a real culture

of let's just keep moving forward.

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If we do fail, if we do make

a mistake, what happens, we

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don't need to overanalyze it.

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We just need to take the

learnings and keep moving forward.

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Jacqui: I think that's a really

important point because for most of

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our podcast listeners, they're already

in management or leadership roles, and

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it's such a good role model to be the

person that normalizes it for your team.

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And I think that's particularly hard

to do if you're in an organizational

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culture where that's not how

you feel you would be treated.

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Because you've got that fear that

if one of your team screws up, then

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that's going to reflect on you.

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But the more that you can create

that culture within your team, where

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you can normalize it, it makes it

easier for people to own up to stuff.

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It makes it easier for them to tell

you when it's happened so that you

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get, proper notice and you can then

seek to rectify what's happened.

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But like you say, more than

that, it's going to stretch

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and grow the team as a whole.

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That's the whole theory of growth mindset

is that the people who have the most

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success also have the most failures and

that without failure, then you don't

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learn, you don't get the feedback to

understand what's the better thing to do.

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Why does that work and that doesn't?

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How do I develop and grow?

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So I love that you had that from

a leader because I think very few

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people do have that role model.

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And so if you're listening to this

and you've got a team, you can

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be that role model for your team.

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Pam: Yeah.

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And I think that is amazing, isn't it?

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If you can start to implement

that into the way that you work.

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So your team have got

that feeling of safety.

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And also, they're able to drive the

business forward because they know

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they've got that level of safety

and they can learn and grow with it.

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I think one of the things that I did when

I was in a leadership position, I used, if

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my team made a mistake, It, I would always

take responsibility for that and I would

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always protect my team and always stand

forward and say, we've made a mistake.

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We're dealing with it.

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This is the action plan.

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And in the background, I'd be working

with that team member and making

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sure that they were okay, making

sure that they fully understood

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what's happened, why it's happened.

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And all also looking at

what the solutions were.

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And I found that quite easy to

do to take that responsibility.

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I didn't necessarily find it easy

to make those mistakes myself.

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So I would be really happy to take

responsibility for my team, but

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making mistakes from a personal

point of view would really affect me

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because like you say, it is stepping

outside your comfort zone, isn't it?

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And it was easy for me to take

responsibility for my team's

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mistakes, but not as easy for me

to accept and move through the

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mistakes that I've made myself.

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And you do get that feeling as

you're going through what will people

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think of me if I make a mistake?

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Will this make me look bad?

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Will it damage my reputation?

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I don't want people to think, bad things

about me or that I'm not up for the job.

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And all of these things that

used to go through my mind.

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But one of the things that I realized.

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Was that making mistakes, admitting

to them, dealing with them, sorting

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out what has gone wrong and getting

everything back on track actually

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helped build my reputation and helps

people to see me from the perspective of

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somebody who will keep moving forward,

somebody who's ambitious, somebody who

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will drive forward and achieve what

we need to achieve, but also somebody

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that will accept and admit to mistakes

and deal with them and resolve them.

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But that did take a while.

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I'm not going to say that was

something that came really easy

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to me because accepting my team

mistakes, that came easy to me.

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I could do that.

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I would take them under my wing.

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I would help them, support

them, coach them through it.

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But when it came to me, it

just, it didn't feel good.

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And it, it, at some point really

did knock my confidence as well.

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Jacqui: Just as you were describing there,

I was thinking back to the episode we

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did a few weeks ago about the difference

between confidence and self belief.

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And I think being able to understand

and I accept yourself despite

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having made mistakes is really

that fundamental self belief layer.

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It's that point of when

you're really okay with you.

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And who you are and what you're

about, then the fear of other

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people's judgment is lessened.

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The fear of making mistakes is lessened.

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When you are a bit fragile in terms of

your own belief in your potential and what

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you're capable of, then a mistake doesn't

just knock your confidence at a surface

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level, it actually chips away at your self

belief because it's more evidence to feed

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that story that you're telling yourself.

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And Of I'm not good enough.

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I'm not up to the job.

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What if people find out?

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And as you were talking, that's the thing

that struck me was how many times when

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you see people in organizations who are

the people who you would trust, that you'd

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want them on your side in an emergency.

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If it was panic stations, you'd

be like, Oh my God, I really want

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to be, I really want to be in

their camp if things go wrong.

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It is often the people who have

got themselves a reputation

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for being able to fix things.

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And why can they fix things?

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Because things go wrong.

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And so they openly will acknowledge

that something's gone wrong and they

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will move into that resolution mode.

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And that's the reputation that

you actually build for yourself.

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And I think when you keep that inside in

your own head, as opposed to acknowledging

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and admitting, you rob yourself of that

opportunity to build your self belief

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and build your external reputation.

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Because what you're focused on is this

kind of you know, Catastrophizing this

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story going on in your head of making

meaning from it, making a mistake

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mean that you're not good enough.

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Nobody said that mistake

means you're not good enough.

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You can tell yourself that story,

or you can say, okay, making a

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mistake means I need to find a way to

resolve it and I need to find a way

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to not make the same mistake again.

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And you can attach whatever meaning you

prefer, but I can tell you which one

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will be more helpful for your career.

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Pam: Yeah, and that is such

a good point, isn't it?

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Because I do feel like if you can get

your head around the fact that it is

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okay to make mistakes and create that

plan for yourself when you find yourself

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in that situation that you know what

to do, you know how to take action,

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you know that your head will be all

over the place, there'll be a million

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thoughts running through, through your

head and you just need to stop and go

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right, okay, what actually has happened?

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And one of the things I used to

do is ask myself in 12 months,

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will this really be a big deal.

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In five years, will I look back on

this and think this is the, like the

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worst mistake, I've ever made and that

sometimes puts it into perspective.

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Even if you think like next week,

will this even still be an issue?

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Sometimes you can build things up

and you go through the whole kinds

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of that stress of the mistake making

feeling and everybody that's listening,

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that's ever made a mistake will,

will know what I'm talking about.

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Like your heart sinks, you feel

sick, you can't think straight.

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But if you acknowledge and accept the

fact that's going to be part of your

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growth and you've got a plan to deal

with it, then I just feel like it does

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help you grow as a person, as a leader.

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And I definitely found that for me,

like when, obviously still making

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mistakes now isn't, it doesn't, still

doesn't feel great, because you're

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like, Oh, what have I done now?

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But, now, the way I deal with making

mistakes compared to me 10 years ago is

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completely different because I'm more

likely to look at it from a real logical

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perspective and, think my way around it

and give myself the space to do that.

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Whereas 10 years ago me would have

been running around like a headless

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chicken, what will people think of me,

probably even writing a resignation

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letter because I can't cope with

the fact that, I've messed up.

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In reality is probably or was

probably only something really small.

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Jacqui: And I think what can make it

harder is when the consequences and the

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ramifications of mistakes are significant.

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If you make a mistake that's got,

put a business or a section of a

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business at risk, in terms of, public

image or reputation, for example, or

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in terms of financial consequences,

or when you make a mistake that

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has an impact on a lot of people.

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So like I was saying about the HR

mistake of, if you send everybody's

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salaries that feels horrible because

It's not just you that it impacts, it's

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a lot of other people who are having

personal information accidentally shared.

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And I think those kinds of situations

do make it harder because we

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feel a sense of responsibility

for others and for the business.

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So sometimes it's harder if

the consequences are not on us.

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But I also just want to pick up on what

you said about stress, because certainly

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in my work with leaders over the last

couple of years, a huge amount of the

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leaders that I work with, when people are

at a senior level, there's this epidemic

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of people working crazy hours, not having

the boundaries that they need to have,

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desperately trying to prove themselves.

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And we did the episode on the stages

of burnout and I think it's really

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important as well to acknowledge that a

lot of mistakes come from the situation

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where people under constant pressure

and they feel this degree of stress

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for a prolonged period and they make,

and I think those again, people find

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harder to forgive themselves for things

that seem like they're tiny mistakes

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seem like why did I make that mistake?

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There's no logical reason why I made it.

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The logical reason why you made

that mistake could be that you

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were under a stupid amount of

pressure for a prolonged period.

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That's impacted how your brain's

functioning, how your nervous

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system is functioning, and that's

the cause of what's happened.

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And unless you address that, then

that's going to be the situation again.

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So I think it's really important in

those types of scenarios where the

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impacts are elsewhere or where it

was an avoidable mistake that just

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you want to kick yourself for all to

actually be kind and compassionate

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to yourself and to treat yourself.

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If a friend, ask yourself that question,

if a friend of mine came and said they'd

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done this, would I think less of them?

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Would I kick them while they were down?

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No, I wouldn't.

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So be gentle with yourself when

those types of things happening.

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Forgive yourself and be compassionate.

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Pam: Yeah, that is really good advice.

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Because I know in the past when I've

made mistakes, the first thing I'll

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do is tell myself how stupid I am.

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And, really start laying into

myself when actually that is not the

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time to be pulling yourself down.

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And, and you're right.

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Would you say that to a

friend who made a mistake?

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No, you're not.

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If a friend comes to you and

says, I've made a massive mistake

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then, or I've made a mistake.

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Then you're going to say okay, what is it?

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Let me see if I can help

you tell me about it.

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Let's see what we can do.

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You're not going to turn around and

start telling them how stupid they are,

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but you do that to yourself, don't you?

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Just because it's almost

like that natural reaction.

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Jacqui: Yeah, absolutely.

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And the other thing I would pick

up on from what you said before

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was about that reflection time.

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Because again, when people are

really busy, reflection time

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generally, gets sacrificed.

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And also I think for a lot of leaders,

they're quite action oriented.

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They're quite future focused.

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And again, reflection can be the thing

that gets missed because it doesn't

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have an instantly realizable value.

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You don't know if you sit down

and spend an hour reflecting.

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What's going to come from it or what

the value of that time is, if you

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sit down and work for an hour on this

project, that's running behind, you

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feel like you've got a sense of at

least I'll have progressed that project.

430

So I think people

undervalue reflection and.

431

I went away recently, the messages

I sent to you, you were like, what

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the hell have you been drinking?

433

Because I was only working part days.

434

I wasn't doing any client work and

actually the creativity and the thoughts

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and kind of the ideas that fizzed when

I had time and space, it was a really

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good reminder to me of the value of

headspace and time and reflection.

437

So yeah, that's, I just wanted to pick

up on that, that you'd said as well.

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Pam: Yeah, and , I do feel like that

is the key to everyone's personal

439

development, giving themselves the

time and the space for that reflection.

440

Because, oh, just Headspace,

just a little bit of space.

441

And even if you feel like you've

got a million other things to do,

442

it's just like going right now.

443

I'm dedicating this time now, even

if it's just sitting there in silence

444

or journaling, starting with a blank

page and just, writing one prompt

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at the top and just giving yourself

that space to download your brain.

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It just really helps with that creativity.

447

And I do feel like that level of

reflection also helps if you have

448

made a mistake, because rather than

burying it, if you go back over it,

449

even if it feels uncomfortable and

awkward and you want to forget about

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it and it like a lot of the time.

451

When you've made a mistake, it'll make

you cringe like going back over it you

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know, I do just feel that there's a

lot of value in doing that because The

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more you can learn from that situation,

the better you will be in the future

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and the better you'll handle those

situations in the future as well.

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Jacqui: Absolutely.

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I feel like this is a topic we could

talk all day on, but that's going to

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bring us to the end of the episode.

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So as ever, thank you

so much for listening.

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We will be back next

week with another one.

460

And in the meantime, if you know

of someone who would benefit from

461

this episode or find it valuable,

then please do share it with them.

462

And please do rate and review us

on your favorite podcast platforms.

463

Thanks for listening and we'll

catch you again next time.