Ep 71 – The Hidden Jobs Market

Hello, and welcome to another episode.

2

Today, we are covering all

about the hidden jobs market.

3

So we're going to be

looking at what is it?

4

Why does it exist?

5

And importantly, if you're in job

search mode, how to access it.

6

And Pam, the hidden jobs market

is again, one of those things,

7

it's a bit like when we did the

personal brand episode last week.

8

The hidden jobs market is again,

one of those concepts, isn't it?

9

That people hear and know of,

but it's shrouded in mystery.

10

And I know when I was employed and looking

for a job and was hearing about it,

11

there was actually very little available.

12

It was like you had to pay

a coach all the big bucks.

13

So we want to shatter some

of that and share some of the

14

learnings with today's episode.

15

Pam: Yeah, it's always been thought of

as some kind of secret society where

16

you've got to pay somebody to get on

the insides and figure out what it is.

17

And loads of it on LinkedIn, loads

of career coaches using it as a

18

marketing tactic, work with me

and access the hidden jobs market.

19

And it's not really that secret.

20

It's all the stuff that we know about.

21

And I absolutely love sharing with

people what the hidden jobs market is.

22

And it's just essentially the

jobs that are not yet advertised.

23

So the jobs that will be filled before

they even get to the job boards,

24

before they even get to the recruiters

sometimes, because they, those jobs

25

are filled through referrals, through

conversations, through networking.

26

It's not a secret society.

27

It's just about being able to build

connections in the background, to be

28

able to articulate what it is that

you're looking for, and for people to

29

provide those introductions and for

you to put yourself in the position.

30

where you are getting those introductions.

31

Jacqui: So much to unpack as we go

through this episode, and it's one

32

that I'm really looking forward to and

wish that I'd had about 15 years ago.

33

So when you talk about what it is then,

is the hidden jobs market solely those

34

ones that are not advertised, or do you

include some of that aspect of actually,

35

they might be advertised, but there's

still priority given to candidates who

36

have accessed them a certain way as

opposed to just being one of however

37

many people who've clicked apply.

38

Pam: Yeah.

39

That is definitely one part of it

because there will be some roles that

40

do get advertised as part of a box

ticking exercise because it's part

41

of the company policy, but actually

there might already be a really strong

42

candidate waiting in the wings that

was always going to get that job.

43

Because somebody else referred them

or they were able to contact the

44

hiring manager directly and have those

conversations with them, even meet

45

up with them and basically secure

that job role and know that it was

46

theirs before the whole recruitment

process is finalized really.

47

Jacqui: And so why does it exist then?

48

Because I guess if people are not

familiar with it, or have only heard

49

of it as terminology, listening to

it for the first time, that kind of

50

might sound a bit like hang on, is

that very fair that there's all this

51

stuff going on behind closed doors?

52

It might feel like that secret society.

53

So why does the hidden jobs market exist?

54

Why is it such a big thing?

55

Pam: So there's probably three

main reasons why it exists.

56

And the first one would be from

a confidentiality point of view.

57

So some companies, especially at a

more senior level or, insensitive

58

situations, there may be redundancies

coming up and things like that.

59

Companies might want to just

avoid any form of disruption

60

within their organization.

61

Or to prevent competitors from sweeping

in and, poaching their vehicle people.

62

So sometimes the recruitment will

go on in the backgrounds and it'll

63

be on a very confidential basis.

64

It might involve headhunters

and, or it could involve.

65

The hiring managers actually going out

and using things like LinkedIn recruiter

66

to really pinpoint candidates and get

in touch with them and invite them for

67

conversations, which, again, linking back

into personal brands is so important that

68

you've got yours nailed so that you are

easy to find on platforms like LinkedIn.

69

That you're clearly demonstrating

what you can bring to the table.

70

And then I think the second

thing is going to be the, the

71

cost and time efficiency because

advertising can be super expensive.

72

So if you can fill vacancies through

referrals from your already great people,

73

like why wouldn't you want to do that?

74

And how do your, or how do

their great people find out that

75

you're looking for a job role?

76

Because you are, telling as many people

as you can that you're in the market that

77

you're looking for a new role, people

that you meet people that you've worked

78

with in the past networking events that

you might go to, or things that you might

79

be involved with within your industry.

80

These are all good ways of letting people

know what you can deliver, even if.

81

You can't actively tell them that

you're looking for a job right now.

82

It's more about just letting them know

what you deliver, because I guarantee

83

if you're telling people what you can

deliver, if they need that skill set in

84

their business, then they're going to come

knocking at your door, even if you can't

85

put it out publicly that you are looking

for a new role at that point in time.

86

And

87

Jacqui: it's interesting, as I

listen to you describing those two,

88

There's probably almost like the

flip side, isn't there, of the coin.

89

So one is, from a company perspective,

there is a need to have confidentiality.

90

There are times, like you say,

particularly with senior roles or

91

where there are changes, where somebody

maybe is on a performance plan and,

92

they want to be able to recruit, but

actually, you can't publicly advertise

93

that as an opportunity because there

is still somebody in that role.

94

So from a company perspective,

that can then be confidential.

95

But then the flip side of that is

actually where the company is very

96

explicit about needing or wanting somebody

but from a candidate perspective, you

97

may not be overtly looking for a job.

98

So there are both things that I'm hearing

there as to reasons why, actually, if

99

somebody knows that you could be great

fit for this, but you haven't gone

100

out there and said, I'm desperately

looking for a role if you are known

101

for that thing, if you're known as

somebody that's good, then that can

102

create the opportunity where there is

a known vacancy where someone can then

103

connect you with that vacancy as well.

104

Pam: Yeah, definitely.

105

And the hidden jobs market can

seem it's fairly complex, but in

106

reality, when you break it down,

like you've just said, there's

107

companies will have different needs.

108

You might be in different

situations where you can't always

109

be out there looking for a role.

110

So it does then just come down

to how well you are networking.

111

Ultimately, it is going to be about

how well you are networking, where

112

you're networking, who you're talking

to, and how you are getting across

113

what you deliver, what you can deliver,

what you can bring to the table.

114

I think that is the real key

part of accessing the hidden

115

jobs market is getting out there

what you bring to the table.

116

And I see people doing

this in all different ways.

117

You can talk at events, you can

attend events and talk about the

118

things that you've delivered.

119

You can get involved in all different

kinds of activities that show where

120

you get the opportunity to talk.

121

About what you've delivered and what

you've brought to the table and the great

122

things that you're doing to drive your

company forward, the more you put yourself

123

into the spotlight and be really clear

on what you deliver, the more people

124

you're going to have knocking at your

door without you having to do much at all.

125

Jacqui: What's the third one then

in terms of the kind of reason for

126

it existing, because this one I so

recognize from my recruitment experience.

127

Pam: Yeah, so the third one is quality

candidates, and you, we both know, don't

128

we, because we, as part of what we do

with Catalyst, we run a recruit right

129

program where we work with employers to

help them recruit right to get the most

130

out of candidates at interviews and to

make the right choice when it comes to

131

who they're going to hire and how that

person's going to benefit the business.

132

And I think we see it so often, don't we?

133

You put a job ad out, you're not always

guaranteed those quality candidates,

134

but a lot of the time those quality

candidates come through from referrals

135

from people either within your network

from people you know within the company

136

you know it's always good if you are

recruiting to ask or to put out some

137

kinds of communication if you can if it's

obviously not on the confidential side

138

and say you know these are the roles that

we're recruiting for just anybody know.

139

Anybody that has got this skill

set, anybody that they would like to

140

introduce us to or refer to us, because

when people recommend people, you

141

generally find that they're doing that

because they know that person's good.

142

And that's where the quality

aspect really comes in.

143

Jacqui: I yeah, absolutely recognize

that and it's something that when I've

144

been doing recruitment projects in house

interim, we've really tapped into those

145

refer a friend type schemes and to getting

people to post vacancies or talk about

146

vacancies themselves so that their network

come to them, rather than it being just

147

general applications and the quality.

148

does tend to be better, because they've

had a conversation, they know what the

149

role is, they know what the expectations

are, they know somebody who works there,

150

and very often, I think there is almost

that onus on the person that is referring,

151

it's their reputation on the line as well.

152

So I know if I'm thinking about who

would I introduce for certain roles

153

and I do it quite a lot now, because

Of the different roles that I've done

154

and what have you and just yesterday

I was asked, do I know of somebody

155

for a potential role, and immediately

I was oh yeah actually I do I'm going

156

to send a message to someone, but I

would not have suggested that person.

157

If they hadn't have been a quality

candidate, because I don't want the person

158

that I'm referring them to, to, I don't

want to damage that relationship with

159

the person that I'm introducing them to.

160

So my reputation's on the line

and I want people to know that.

161

If I'm going to introduce somebody,

if I'm going to give somebody my

162

backing, that is a quality candidate.

163

So I absolutely recognize that both

from the perspective of being the

164

person who's seeking does anyone know

someone who, but also as the person

165

who's making that introduction.

166

Absolutely.

167

I've seen the quality that comes through.

168

And also I've known that I will

only refer people where I trust

169

that they will be able to deliver.

170

Pam: Yeah, and I'm exactly the same

with that because I get so many messages

171

and especially when we were in that

space of it being a very candidate

172

driven market back in COVID times.

173

And there was a lot of do you know

anybody with any of your clients

174

fit this bill type of thing.

175

And it is true that you will only

recommend people that you 100

176

percent trust can go ahead and

do that job and come across well

177

so yeah I do feel like, that.

178

For that purpose of finding quality

candidates, then that is, that

179

is definitely a road to go down.

180

Jacqui: And my experience has been, I'm

interested in your take on this, that

181

the hidden jobs market becomes more

important the more senior people go.

182

Pam: Yeah, definitely.

183

And one of the things that I always

say to my senior level clients is

184

that you are more likely to get a

job through your network than you

185

are through applying on job boards.

186

So when we're looking at the job

search strategy, it's usually the

187

networking elements of that we start

with, like looking at what, who's in

188

your current network, who can you speak

to, who can You know, help you and

189

point you in the right direction, get

you some intros and things like that.

190

They're always the starting point

because at a senior level, your

191

network is more important than ever.

192

And I suppose at this point, that's

a really good thing to bring up

193

as well, because the first thing

lots of people say to both of us

194

is that they haven't got a network.

195

And we have covered this off on

the podcast before, so you can go

196

back and listen to the episodes,

but everybody's got a network.

197

If you've had one job,

you've got a network.

198

If you have got family and friends,

people, maybe from the school

199

gates, from going to the pub.

200

From going to different sports clubs,

you've got a network, you just need

201

to start thinking about how you can

use that network and how you can

202

build stronger relationships within

that network to allow for people

203

then to be able to refer you on.

204

Jacqui: Yeah, it is so

important, isn't it?

205

And I think It's interesting for

me because as people so I often

206

work with people in the first 90

days when they've been promoted

207

into a senior leadership role.

208

And I think it's that kind of

level is often where then people

209

are almost but I don't see any

opportunities beyond this, like

210

there's nothing really gets advertised.

211

I don't know how I would progress my

career beyond this if opportunities

212

don't come to me internally.

213

And I think this is the bit that I

missed out on was that awareness and

214

understanding that the more senior

you go, the less likely it is that

215

you're just going to respond to a job

ad or, have a call from a recruiter.

216

You've really got to be known for

what you can do and you've really

217

got to maintain that network.

218

So what are the tips then if people

are recognizing, okay, maybe the

219

way that I've approached job search

in the past with the bias towards

220

recruiters or job applications.

221

might not serve me at the level that I'm

now at and I might need to get better

222

at accessing the hidden jobs market.

223

What tips can you offer for

people that are in that situation?

224

Pam: So I think the first thing is

going to be to start reaching out to

225

the different people that you've already

got in your network and Sometimes I

226

call them informational interviews.

227

Sometimes I call them coffee chats.

228

They're exactly the same.

229

So what you want to do is just start

having conversations with people.

230

What you don't want to do is

launch into that conversation

231

with I'm looking for a new job.

232

So what have you got for me?

233

Who can you introduce me to?

234

And, go in for the hard sell.

235

You want to ease into those.

236

relationships and ease into those

conversations, find out about them, find

237

out what they've been up to, and just

have a really nice conversation about, how

238

you've both come to where you are today.

239

And then once you've got that conversation

flow, and then obviously then you

240

can start talking about, some of the

things that you've delivered, maybe

241

dependent on who you're talking to,

you can share some real like valuable

242

insights and things that are going

on within your industries or across

243

industries or, things that, are coming up.

244

And within those conversations,

like when you feel comfortable, you

245

can start talking about what you

might be looking for and just start

246

extending those conversations out.

247

So the last thing you want to do

is when you're having those chats,

248

especially if it's something you've

not spoken to for a while is to make

249

them think you've only got in touch

because you want something from them.

250

This whole exercise is

about relationship building.

251

And allowing people to know what you've

been doing, what you've delivered and,

252

what you're thinking you want to do next.

253

Because then if they hear anything

or they know anything's going on

254

within their organization, then

you're going to be front of mind.

255

for them.

256

So that's probably one of the main things

that I would do, like reaching out to

257

that network and almost waking that

network up, I think is super important.

258

Jacqui: And I think what we would

say with this is don't leave it

259

until you are really in need of

a new role to start doing this.

260

The ideal time to start doing

this is probably what a year

261

before you're actually looking to

make a move, maybe even longer.

262

Ideally, like you say, focusing on

the relationships and on maintaining

263

those relationships and strengthening

relationships and reconnecting with people

264

who you've been connected with before.

265

So in terms of timing, would you agree

with that, that you want to do it a

266

good kind of year, ideally, before

you're actually looking to move on.

267

Pam: Yeah, definitely.

268

If not longer, because the longer you've

been building those relationships,

269

the stronger they're going to be.

270

And although the hidden jobs market

is, it's a job search strategy.

271

It's part of the overall

job search strategy or.

272

It's part of your overall

job search strategy.

273

I think what you need to understand about

it is it's actually quite a slow burn.

274

Sometimes you can touch really lucky,

and you can have those conversations,

275

and there's a role there, or there's

somebody that you can be introduced

276

to straight away, but generally,

in my experience, it's a slow burn.

277

But it's a very important

part of your strategy.

278

And what it means is that the longer

you can build your network up,

279

then when you are actively putting

yourself out there, the quicker

280

you will get those introductions.

281

But you need to build that

strong foundation, first of all.

282

Jacqui: And who would you prioritize?

283

So if people are listening to

this and thinking, Oh, I just.

284

Yeah, I get the idea of it, but

who the hell would I actually

285

get in touch with and try and

go and have a coffee chat with?

286

If people haven't done it

before, it can feel a bit weird.

287

So who would you prioritize if you're

suggesting that people are starting

288

to do this for the first time?

289

Pam: So I think what I would

do personally, and I feel

290

like I'm quite introverted.

291

So sometimes networking can be quite

not difficult so much now, but in the

292

past, I would say it was difficult.

293

What I would do is, and even if you

feel like you're quite extroverted

294

and you're ready to just jump in and

have the conversations, I think the

295

starting point really should always

be maybe the people who were in

296

your peer group in previous roles.

297

Because that way then you can catch

up with them, you can find out what's

298

going on in their companies, in

their industries, and sometimes those

299

people that were in your peer groups

in previous roles could actually be

300

hiring managers in other companies.

301

So I think in order to ease yourself

into it, if you reach out to people

302

that were, of a similar level.

303

people that maybe you were quite friendly

with or people that you could have a

304

conversation with that's going to help you

ease into it and I think one of the things

305

that people find difficult as well about

reaching out having those conversations

306

is that because as we mentioned earlier

they get so caught up in the day to day.

307

Of their job and everything that they

don't prioritize that time to build those

308

connections and have those conversations.

309

So if that's you, it's about thinking,

okay how important is this to me and

310

not putting it off and just getting

those conversations in the diary.

311

Whether it's a phone call or whether it's,

a meetup in person or whatever it is, just

312

starting to be really intentional about

getting those catch ups in the diary.

313

Jacqui: And I think if you're

feeling a bit self conscious.

314

I know one of the things that I've done

is just not even necessarily in person,

315

but I've just messaged people recently in

the last kind of year or two, where I'll

316

just say, I'm making more of a conscious

effort to keep in touch with people

317

that I've got on well with in the past.

318

If you're up for it, do you fancy just a

virtual cuppa, and just spend 20 minutes,

319

half an hour, just reconnecting that way.

320

And I found that for

me, I really enjoy that.

321

And I'm like you, I'm an introvert.

322

So big networking events and trying

to connect with people that way.

323

Doesn't really.

324

Do it for me, but those kind of

one to one chats with people that

325

I've got on with in the past.

326

And then I'm interested to see because

it, then it's not one way like you're

327

genuinely interested as well and

what's happening for them in their

328

lives what's happening in terms of.

329

where they're at now.

330

So it's a much more balanced conversation

rather than you feeling like I just

331

want to show up and use this, use and

abuse this person and rinse them for

332

all the future jobs they could give me.

333

It's a genuine conversation

where you're interested in

334

understanding what are they doing?

335

How have things been going for them?

336

And you can.

337

Some people might not respond or they

might not have time and others, you'll

338

find that you reconnect with people

that you've got on well with in the

339

past and it's actually really lovely.

340

Pam: Yeah.

341

And that's the thing, isn't it?

342

Because sometimes when you do catch

up with people and then you think,

343

why does it leave it so long?

344

And it's fairly nice, but you've got that

added advantage of finding out at that

345

point, where else have they been working?

346

How did they find it?

347

And all of those extra insights

that you can get from them.

348

Jacqui: So what else then, apart

from reconnecting with people,

349

what else can people do to

access the hidden jobs market?

350

Pam: So the next thing really is going

to be those direct applications where

351

you are contacting companies directly.

352

Now, I always say this might be quite

controversial for us on the podcast

353

with Jackie being a HR professional,

but I always say, and you can correct

354

me if I'm wrong, Jackie, but HR are

usually the last people to know.

355

About the jobs, not all the time.

356

So if there's any people that are in HR

roles listening, I know that sometimes

357

you can be heavily involved in the

process, but in terms of reaching out

358

it's going to be the hiring managers

that know what they're looking for.

359

So when we're thinking about

accessing the hidden jobs market,

360

there's no recruitment process that

has been initiated at this point.

361

It's the hiring manager that has got this

idea that we need to recruit somebody.

362

They might not have even had the

budget signed off at this point.

363

So usually once all of that stuff

is sorted out, then they'll instruct

364

HR and, or depending on how big

the company is, it could be talent

365

acquisition or whoever it is.

366

They'll usually then instruct that team

to then proceed with the recruitment.

367

So at this stage, if we're

accessing the hidden jobs

368

market, it's about going direct.

369

to those hiring managers.

370

So when you're connecting on LinkedIn,

it's okay what role am I looking for?

371

So for example, if it's a sales manager

role, then you would be looking at

372

heads of sales and sales director, and

they would be the people that you will

373

connect with and start to try and build

the relationships with those people.

374

And Another key thing to think about as

well is not just spraying and praying

375

and hoping for the best, like genuinely

look for the companies that you want to

376

work for, the brands that you want to be

associated with, and then go and find the

377

hiring managers within them organizations.

378

and do a search for what is local to

you as well, because sometimes you

379

just don't realize what is on your

doorstep and who's moved in recently.

380

Maybe you don't drive that way.

381

So you've not seen them.

382

So check who's on your

doorstep and then use.

383

platforms like LinkedIn to

start making those connections.

384

And you can always send them a good

old letter in the post if they're not

385

very responsive on LinkedIn, which

is another option, which is something

386

that I've done in the past and

something that my clients recently have

387

also done and been successful with.

388

Jacqui: It's really interesting hearing

you say that about the the hiring

389

managers because yeah, absolutely.

390

So a big part of my battle I was

thinking of a particular role where I

391

went into on a project basis to look

after recruitment, but to establish

392

the processes that need to be in place.

393

And one of the things that was really

striking there was how recruitment

394

had been totally missed out and hiring

managers were having conversations direct

395

with agencies or were, just picking

up the phone and getting people in and

396

we needed to establish, some process

and some systemization around it.

397

Did I put a stop to hiring managers?

398

Bringing people that,

they knew could do a job.

399

Absolutely not.

400

Because when you've got talent acquisition

within a business, if that hiring

401

manager has got somebody that they're

happy with and that vacancy is going

402

to be filled without it being lots of

effort and lots of work for an internal

403

recruitment team, that recruitment team

generally is happy as long as it doesn't

404

mean that it's costing them a fortune.

405

So my only issue with it was when.

406

hiring managers would speak

directly to agencies and then be

407

sending me CVs for somebody where

agency terms haven't been agreed.

408

And, there was all of the budget

implications of that for my budget.

409

But if they would, they were bringing

me a direct candidate and that was going

410

to cut out having to pay a recruiter.

411

Happy days.

412

So yeah, would absolutely second that

advice of it's the hiring managers

413

who very often are the ones who.

414

And like you say, there will be times

when there's new roles being created.

415

There might not be budget sign off.

416

There might be somebody that's

already in a role who, is either

417

moving on or where the roles

might be changing and they, can't.

418

can't do the role that they're

going to be required to do.

419

So there's just so many reasons

why roles can come about.

420

And yeah, you're absolutely right.

421

HR are often not the first to know.

422

Pam: I'm glad that you said

that because we didn't discuss

423

that before the podcast, did we?

424

And then I thought, Oh, I wonder

if we could fall out over this.

425

Jacqui: No, must try harder to fall out.

426

Pam: Okay, so I think the final thing for

me around how to access the hidden jobs

427

market is going to be really staying up to

date with industry news as well and seeing

428

what's out there and setting Google alerts

up and just seeing generally what's going

429

on with the different companies that you

want to work for because a lot of the time

430

they'll get investments so they'll be You

know, what will follow will be more jobs.

431

They might make redundancies and what

generally follows redundancies, when

432

you go through that cycle is more jobs.

433

There's always going to be opportunities,

whether the news is positive or

434

negative, unless obviously the

news is that they're shutting down

435

so when you keep an up to date with

industry news, whether it's positive or

436

negative, there's usually opportunities

within that somewhere, whether

437

it's immediately or whether it's a

little bit further down the line.

438

So it's always good to stay up

to date to see what is going on.

439

And also as well from an interview

prep point of view, the more you know

440

about that company, the easier it's

going to be for you to get in there,

441

talk to them about what you know.

442

about them and really show, the

passion that you've really looked into

443

them that you know a lot about them.

444

Jacqui: Perfect.

445

We hope that has helped.

446

If you have been in that situation that

so many are in of what is this hidden

447

jobs market thing and how do I access it?

448

Thanks Pam for sharing all

of those insider secrets.

449

If you are in the situation where you

are approaching a job search, whether

450

that's immediate or whether, you want to

be moving on in a short while, then do

451

get in touch with Pam to work with her

on her job search accelerator where you

452

can work one to one and really have that

handholding and support to make sure that

453

the things you're doing are going to get

you the roles that you actually want.

454

And if there is anything that you

need in terms of future topics and

455

as ever, please do drop us a message.

456

We always love creating episodes that we

have been asked for, but either by clients

457

or by listeners because we know then that

stuff that people do want to know about.

458

So thank you for listening.

459

Please rate and review on your

favorite podcast platform.

460

And we will be back again with

another episode next week.