Ep 69 – Why You Shouldn’t Rely on Your Boss to Develop You

Hello and welcome to this week's episode.

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This one has been in the planning stages

for a little while and it's one that both

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of us are really passionate about and

that is the topic of why you shouldn't

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rely on your boss to develop you.

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And We both have seen and have

experienced in our own careers,

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this idea that your boss should

be the person that develops you.

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And our view is quite different,

I think, as a result of the

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experience that we've had and the

work that we do with our clients.

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So Pam, kick us off then, what are the

kind of key reasons why people shouldn't

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rely on their bosses counterintuitive.

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Pamela: So the first thing to think

about is, whether that boss is actually

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capable of developing you and it's

not always the case that they are.

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You don't know how they

got to that position.

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You don't know what they know, or

you might know some of what they

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know, but generally, they might

not be capable of developing you.

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They might not, they might've done

really well to get to where they

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are and develop themselves in some

way, but they might not have that

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ability to be able to develop you.

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Jacqui: It is a real skill to be able

to develop other people, and I think the

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assumption that your boss should be the

person to develop you makes the unspoken

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assumption that your boss is capable.

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So I think that's a

really important point.

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Your boss might have all the desire and

all the hope and will, and want you to be

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able to develop, but they may not have the

capability to actually help you to develop

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in the ways that you need to develop.

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Pamela: Yeah.

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And I think we're all very much

conditioned or we have been in the past

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that start of your career, you get a

job, you learn from your manager, your

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manager develops you, you progress

through your career, they help you.

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But we know that isn't

always the case, isn't it?

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Because even if they've got the

capability, they might not have

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that desire to help you develop.

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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And.

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Even if they do, so even assuming that

they've got the capability and the

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desire, if you're an ambitious manager

or a leader, then the person you're

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reporting into is probably really busy.

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And even if they have both the

capability and the desire, they

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may still not have the time and

capacity to be able to develop you.

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So you've got, they've got to have

all of those three for that to be

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something that's even going to happen.

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So I think when you start to look at

what are the chances that your boss has

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all of those three things available to

them, then straight away you can start

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to see why it may not be the smartest

strategy to rely on them to develop you.

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But what are some of the other reasons?

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So if you assume that potentially you have

got a boss that's got all those three.

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We would still argue that you

shouldn't rely on that person.

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And that perhaps sounds weird.

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So why would we say that?

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Pamela: I think the main reason is

always going to be that you will lose

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ownership of your own career development.

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And putting your career development

into the hands of someone else,

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like it's never going to be the

version that you actually want.

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It's going to be their version

based on their perception and

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what they think you're capable of.

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Whereas if you take real ownership.

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Of your career, then you can create the

version of your career that you want to

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grow into, even if you're coming down

to the money that you want to earn and

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all of the good stuff that sits behind

that, when you take ownership, you are

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being intentional and you are making

sure that all of those things that you

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want and all of the things that you'd

like to achieve that you've got that,

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you've got the best plan to make that

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Jacqui: happen.

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I love that word intentional and

having those choices that you are

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making rather than placing that

responsibility with somebody else is

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really fundamental to our philosophy.

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Our strapline for the whole podcast

is take ownership of your career.

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And so absolutely, I agree that

it's really important not to

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lose ownership by placing that

in the hands of somebody else.

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I would also say when you are reliant on.

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Your boss, naturally, the goals

in terms of your development that

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your boss is going to have, they're

probably hopefully going to have

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your best interests at heart.

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But fundamentally, their role

is to deliver on behalf of the

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organization that they're employed by.

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And so not only are you losing

ownership, but also the development

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goals then become shaped by.

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Making you more able to deliver

company goals as opposed

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to your own personal goals.

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So it's another aspect of that kind of

choice and intentionality, isn't it?

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Pamela: Yeah, and it's a really good

point that you make there as well

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because ordinarily most managers are not

going to want their people to move on.

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So there's always that element

of, are they suppressing you

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to keep you in that role?

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Are they really going to develop you?

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Because depending on how fast they develop

you determines how quick you move on.

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So it's almost like you

give the ownership to them.

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And they keep you small or they

suppress your development for a

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period of time that suits them.

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Jacqui: It's a really interesting point.

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Just last week I was having a conversation

with another coach and one of their

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clients was in that predicament where they

wanted to move on and they had this debate

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going of do I tell my boss that I'm going

for An interview, or do I not because my

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boss values loyalty and wants people to

stay and wants to keep the team as it is.

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So this was somebody that was taking

ownership of their career and their

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development, but they had a boss.

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who they knew that was at risk.

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So it's if I go for an interview and

I get it, they're going to find out

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and be hurt that I didn't tell them.

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If I go for an interview and I tell

them, but then I don't get it, then

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they're going to be hurt that I've wanted

to get out for my own personal goals.

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So I think that piece really

does come into play where.

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At a conscious or a subconscious

level, a lot of bosses, naturally, if

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they've got a team that is working and

they've worked hard to build it, they

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do want to keep some stability and it's

going to present a challenge for them.

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if you are the superstar and you're

having all these other opportunities

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and you go off and make progress.

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And with good people, often

even at a subconscious level,

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there is still that element.

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And I know I've been that person.

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I'm really passionate

about people's development.

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Look at what I do for a living.

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But I know that in the past, I've had

that kind of Oh, I really want you to

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develop it if you can just give me six

more months to just get to this point

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so I can have another person ready.

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And so yeah, absolutely, it's it and it

all feeds into that thing of, it's about

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the organization's goals it's about their

goals rather than your own personal goals.

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So what's the final one then?

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Cause I think this is the one that

we're now going to start to move on

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to sharing a bit of how to do this.

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Pamela: Yeah.

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So the final one is that you need to

develop the skills to develop yourself.

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Because without that skill you will

just keep going around in circles and

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letting other people take ownership

or letting other people push you in

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directions that, you don't know if

those directions are right for you and

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the only way that you will know is by

taking ownership and creating that real

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clear strategy for your future career.

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And taking ownership.

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Jacqui: Developing

yourself is a skill set.

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And I think it's easy for that to be

sidelined because it feels quite selfish.

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To put your energy and attention

into learning how to develop

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yourself feels a bit selfish.

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But also on the other side, there

is that element then of, but

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isn't that somebody else's job?

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So I'm always amazed at how many people

come to me and self fund for coaching.

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And I really admire that because it's

people investing in themselves and

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their career in a way that I really

didn't realize when I was employed.

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And I was fortunate enough to have

external coaches that my company had

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funded and I hand on heart don't know if

I would have done that for myself had that

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have not been paid for by my employer.

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So if people are ready to do that

and recognize, do you know what,

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that is an incredible skill to be

able to develop myself is going to

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make a huge difference to my career.

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Where do people start with that?

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If you've been that person who's

waited and hoped that development

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was going to be forthcoming and it

hasn't, or if that development has

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been shaped around company goals, and

now you want to take ownership of it.

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Where do you start with learning

how to develop yourself?

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Pamela: I think the first point

is going to be around clarity.

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You need to really think about what

you want to develop because I see a

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lot of people, I see so many CVs with

so many training courses on where

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people have had opportunities to

go on training courses, and they've

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literally jumped on every single one.

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Because they felt like the more training

courses that they do, and that they

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can document on their CV, that's going

to help them further the career when

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in actual fact, taking a step back

and getting really clear on which are

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the areas that I need to develop, it

will allow you to look for the right

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opportunities, it will allow you to look

at the right training courses and, to

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even request those through work and where

that's not possible, you can see what

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other resources are available out there.

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You can have conversations, like

there's so many things that you can

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do once you've got that clarity on

what it is that you need to develop.

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Jacqui: And I think what you need to

develop comes from, clarity around

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what is it that you want to get?

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What opportunity do you

want to create for yourself?

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What do you want over the

next phase of your career?

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And if people go back and listen to

the New Year episodes that we did just

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a few weeks ago, where we talked about

reflecting and then on thinking about

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reverse engineering your career strategy.

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That's where we talked in some depth

about that process of getting that clarity

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about what do you want from your career.

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And if you haven't listened to that, I

would definitely start with that because

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otherwise, the danger is you try and

get that clarity about what do I need to

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develop, but there's so many things up in

the air and it's hard to prioritize them

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if you haven't got a purpose in mind.

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So if you've got 17 things that you

could develop or you think you would

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benefit from developing, then if you've

got a next goal in mind, whether that

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be a promotion or a career change or a

next level, something different, then

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it makes it so much easier to rank

those different forms of development

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or different opportunities in terms

of how much will this particular thing

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help me towards that particular goal.

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Pamela: Yeah.

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And that's a really good point because

especially as you move like further

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and further up the ranks within your

career, it usually does come down to

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three key areas of like strategy, the

commercial elements and leadership.

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So it's like when you're thinking

about clarity and what, where

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do I need to develop and what

do I need to develop next?

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It's like really narrow it down to those

different things, because otherwise,

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like you say, you can have 17 different

things that you think you need to develop.

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But in reality, if you, I always take

it back to being in an interview, right?

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So if you are thinking about the next step

in your career path and you are sitting

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there right now interviewing for that

role, what do they need to hear from you?

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What do they need to see from you?

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What do you need to evidence?

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And that is going to be where.

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The clarity around what you need to

develop is going to come from because that

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is where you can have that real honest

conversation with yourself that says, if I

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got asked around strategy in an interview

for the next step up or the next move

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in my career, how would I evidence that?

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Maybe I could a little bit.

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Maybe I really couldn't or yeah, I've

got loads of things that I can talk

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about and I've had lots of exposure

to developing and designing strategies

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and all of that kinds of stuff.

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So that's where you can really drill down.

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If you think how do I get the clarity?

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Just think about being in that

interview seat and what they

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might need to hear from you.

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And that is definitely going to throw

out some of those key starting points.

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Jacqui: I love that advice.

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And that puts me in mind when I talk

to clients about the different ways

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that you can develop yourself, I put

it into three buckets, if you like,

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so you can develop your knowledge, you

can develop your skills, and you can

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develop your behaviors or character.

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And very often, coming back to what

you were saying about interview.

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People naturally lean towards knowledge.

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People think I need to know more in

order to be better at my job or in

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order to get another opportunity.

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When you go to an interview,

they're not asking what you know.

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There's a certain benchmark, obviously,

for every role of knowledge that you need.

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But what they really want is

your skills and your behaviors.

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That's what a competency

based interview is looking at.

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It's looking at how do

you apply your knowledge?

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How do you develop skills

and what behaviors can we

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expect from you in this role?

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So those interview questions are

typically, and the more senior you

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go, the more that tends to be the case

that knowledge becomes comparatively

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less the golden ticket and your

behaviors become more the golden ticket

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because that leadership capacity,

that strategic ability is far more

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sitting in the skills and behavior

buckets as opposed to the knowledge.

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So very often what people think they need

in order to develop themselves changes.

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When they get that clarity of where am

I heading for and then, like you said, I

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absolutely love that advice of thinking

of it when you sat in an interview because

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it's such a, it's such an easy thing for

people to think, yeah what questions might

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I be asked when I go for that next role?

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Ah, yeah, maybe that changes

what I need to focus on.

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Pamela: Yeah, because then straight

away you can just see the gaps that

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you've got and then you can look at what

training courses, what conversations, what

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coaching could help me to plug those gaps.

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And it just makes it

that little bit clearer.

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Jacqui: And I think the other thing

as well, when you start to prioritize,

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one of the things that's helpful is

to also consciously deprioritize so

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very often when people start thinking

about developing themselves or you

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know how to progress in their career,

they come up with this huge list, and

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we see it all the time where people

are looking at leadership roles.

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They're looking at getting a promotion

or they're looking at applying

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for a new job, and they feel like

they've got to have absolutely

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everything on the shopping list.

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And it's very easy for that to

drive this assumption of I've

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got to be skilled in everything.

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And the reality is you don't, there's

always going to be things that you don't

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need as much or things that are less key.

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And so I think that letting go of things

and feeling like, yeah, okay, I'm going to

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take these areas and really focus on those

because the roles that I want are going

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to have more of that and the roles that

I'm doing Fine, I can leave that behind.

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I don't need to be more skilled at the

job I've already got I need to develop

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the skills for the job that I want

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Pamela: Yeah, exactly.

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And I, I love that research that you

talked about as well, where you said

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where people have most benefited

from development opportunities.

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I thought that was a really good

model to, to think about, when

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you're trying to get that clarity

around what you need to develop.

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Jacqui: Yeah.

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And I think the other thing as well, when

people then start to get that clarity

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about what they need to develop is then

thinking about how can they create that.

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And the assumption often is that

it needs to be those courses.

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It needs to be formal training.

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I need to go on a leadership course or

I need to learn about strategy or I need

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to do, I don't know, a project management

qualification or whatever it may be.

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And again, people can then get frustrated

if there isn't budget or there isn't

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opportunity, but there's so much

that you can do that does not rely on

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formal training and qualifications.

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So typically, that only

accounts for about 10%.

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If you think about

what, how you've gained.

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All of the skills and experience and

capacity for doing what you do in your

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career and look back on how you gained it.

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You'll find inevitably the

vast majority has come from

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conversations with colleagues.

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It's come from doing things

and learning from them.

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It's come from, Googling, listening

to podcasts, watching YouTube videos.

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It's come from things that are not

big formal types of development.

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And I think people underestimate the

value of informal mentoring within the

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workplace of having conversations with

people who've made the types of career

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progression that you're aspiring to

and of just throwing themselves in.

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Pamela: And that's the thing because

when we're talking about the it's

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the 70, 20, 10 model, isn't it?

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That, that you were talking about.

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And when you said 70 percent of

development happens through on the

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job experience, it's Wow we don't even

realize that do we because we're so

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caught up a lot of the time in our to

do lists and just delivering because

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it's part of the job that we don't

realize that every day that we're in

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work regardless of what we're working on

we're actually developing in some way.

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Like every day, if you look for

it, there's the learning, there is

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something that you can take away

from each day, whether it's an

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interaction, a thought, a feeling,

whatever you've had, there's something

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that you can take away from each day.

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And then like leading on to that

is the 20 percent that happens

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socially through those conversations.

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Whoever Like having a quiet work

environment was going to be useful.

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Those conversations, those on

the job conversations, those

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conversations that you have in

passing, they're all also helping

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towards your development, aren't they?

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Because they're those conversations

that, that you listen to that

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you have, where you getting those

things out of your head, aren't you?

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And.

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Almost thrashing them out with

different types of people as

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you go throughout the day.

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So valuable.

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Jacqui: And not just in the workplace,

it can be, socially with people that

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are at a similar career stage of you.

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There's so many opportunities for

informal and I've got someone that

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I we joke about calling it fizzy

brain and she runs a development

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company and literally I cannot have a

conversation with her, without my brain

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sparking in a million different ways.

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And that's because she just has this

innate ability to ask questions or to

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float ideas that really just spin my

head and help me to think in different

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ways and see different perspectives.

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And that is so incredibly valuable for me

because I really value my own development.

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So spending time with people who create

that spark in you, who help you to

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think differently, who ask you questions

about what you do and why you do it.

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And all of that stuff, I remember my

very first coach having a similar thing

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where I was like frustrated that I wanted

more formal learning opportunities.

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And I still remember to this day,

getting to that conclusion from her very

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skillful questioning where I was Oh.

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My entire job is a

development opportunity.

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She was like, you don't say.

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Pamela: And that's the thing, isn't it?

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Because sometimes you don't realize,

and because you have that expectation,

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because we're conditioned to have

that expectation that we learn from

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our managers and they will develop

us and they will help us to progress.

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Like it's, if we're honest,

we've all been conditioned to a

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certain extent to believe that.

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I suppose it's now like thinking

about reframing that, isn't it?

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And thinking about how

do I take ownership?

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How do I stop leaving it to chance?

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How do I take my career out of someone

else's hands and start being more

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intentional and really taking the

ownership or taking the ownership back?

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If, if you feel like you've had somebody

that's been cool on the shots, take

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the ownership back now is the time.

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to do that.

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So I suppose in terms of practical

tips, what would you say the

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first thing that people need to

do to take that ownership back?

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Jacqui: There's probably

hundreds that we could pick.

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And as ever, we've cherry picked.

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So there's five that I would cherry pick.

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And the first of those just picking up

on that conversation we were just having.

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Is thinking about intentionally learning

from other people, but specifically

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people who you don't want to be like.

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So this one comes up for me very often

with clients, they will want career

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progression and they will pinpoint

somebody who has managed to, in their

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eyes, inexplicably and unjustifiably,

get on and progress and have the type

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of opportunity that they're aspiring to.

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And the things they'll say to me

is, they're always spouting stuff on

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LinkedIn or, they're not even that

good at their job, but they just

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seem to get these opportunities.

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And I'm like, so look at what are

the things that they're doing?

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Who are they speaking to?

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How are create, how are they creating

those career opportunities for themselves?

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And how can you do that in

a way that is right for you?

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That you can really learn from.

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How are those people that you

don't want to be like, how have

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they got those opportunities?

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And it's the same with leadership.

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Look at people who you don't want to be

like, what are your golden rules for the

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things you don't want to do as a leader?

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And as soon as you start looking at those

things, You can create those those ways

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of being or, different behaviors that you

can focus on that can be different to the

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people that you don't want to be like.

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Pamela: Yeah, I think that's a really

good way of doing that, of thinking

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about what you don't want to be.

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Because I think sometimes when you

can't if we ask somebody the question

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what is it that you want to develop?

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What is your key focus?

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A lot of the time, especially if

there's loads of stuff going on.

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People don't always know what to focus

in on, but when you look at it from

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that other aspect of what don't you

want to be like, what, what, like

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in terms of like leadership, how,

who are the people that you really

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don't like their leadership approach.

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That's where then you can start drilling

down to the good stuff and really

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thinking about what you want to do.

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It's.

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No matter what you do, thinking about

what you don't want is always going

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to get you closer to what you do want.

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Jacqui: So which would you

pick out then of our others?

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What do you feel has been

really helpful for you?

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Pamela: I think one of the key things

that was absolutely game changing for me

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in my career was consistent reflection.

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And.

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It was like, it was amazing when I learned

about reflection because I was like, how

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do I get, I think it was about 28, 29.

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And I was like, how do I get

this far down the path of my life

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and not have even heard about

reflection and knew what it is.

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Obviously you do it without really

thinking about it, but never really

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intentional if you don't understand

it and the power of reflecting.

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And I think for me, that

was a massive game changer.

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So thinking about what had

gone what hadn't gone so well,

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what I wanted to improve on.

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Even some of the conversations that

I'd had and how they made me feel and

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how I would then approach things going

forward on the basis of that reflection,

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that absolutely propelled my career.

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Like it, it really helped me push

forward and be stronger and really know

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what I wanted and what I was moving

towards and really get that focus.

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Because before I reflected, it was just

a case of go in, do the work next day.

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And it was just like that kinds

of eat, sleep, repeat work cycle

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thing, that you go through.

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I think I've got it in the wrong

order, but it's, you just go through

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the day to day and you never really

look back to move forward because

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you think I've not got time.

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I'll just keep plowing forward

when really that reflection time.

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is massive and can show you so much

and tell you so much about yourself

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and also support the growth as well.

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Jacqui: And I have some questions

that I use each week for reflection.

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One of those is what have I learned

or been reminded of this week?

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And I find that really simple question

that I ask myself at the end of each

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week so helpful because very often

it's not even stuff that you've.

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Learn, that's brand new knowledge,

it's stuff that you have been

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reminded of in some way, and I think

it's hard to create a consistent

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practice of reflecting, but it is also

incredibly valuable when people do it.

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So the next one I'm going to

pick out is seek out challenges.

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So if you want to build the skill

of developing yourself, Staying

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in your comfort zone is not where

you're going to develop yourself

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and this one requires some bravery

and it requires being willing to be

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vulnerable and not have all the answers.

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And I think the further you go in

your career, the harder that can be.

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So often when people do the

reflection and think, how did I

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progress earlier on in my career?

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It was often taking things on that

you didn't know how to do yet.

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And you figured it out and you went along.

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And I think the further you go

and the more you gain status

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and other people's respect.

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And, if you've been somewhere for a while,

it can be hard to take a risk and feel

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like, I'm not sure that I can do this,

but taking an opportunity that you don't

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feel ready for is an amazing opportunity

for self development and learning.

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Pamela: Yeah, I love that.

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And I think that can really help you

to see, what you need to develop and,

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where you feel uncomfortable and really

help you to figure out, where those key

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focus points are to move you forward.

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The final one for me would

be asking for feedback.

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And we've covered this so many

times on the podcast, haven't we?

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We always talk about asking for feedback

and how uncomfortable feedback can be, but

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also how useful feedback can be as well.

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Asking for feedback on a regular basis

and really checking in with yourself can

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really help support your development and,

making sure that you are asking the right

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people for feedback and asking them for

feedback on the right things as well,

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not just asking for generic feedback, but

asking for really specific feedback will

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really support your development as well.

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Jacqui: Yeah, we'll link back to the

episode on how to get feedback that

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actually helps in the show notes so

that you can go back and listen to that

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episode if you haven't heard it already.

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And I think the final one for

me is teach or mentor others.

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So one of the things that can really

help learning or development to stick is

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when you think about something in a way

that allows you to help somebody else.

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And when you do that, that really cements

kind of knowledge, understanding, context.

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Sometimes you'll know what needs to

happen, but you might not think about why

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things might have become second nature.

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And teaching or mentoring other people

is a great opportunity to help reflect

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in a way that allows you to communicate

it succinctly to somebody else.

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The other thing about mentoring

that's incredibly valuable is

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that when you're open to it.

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As a mentor, you always

learn from your mentee.

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There can be an assumption that

the mentor, it should be one way.

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And the mentor should be the kind

of the wise elder and the mentee

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should be the person that's learning.

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But in every relationship that I've had,

where I've been a mentor, I have learned

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something about myself or, developed

myself in some way from that relationship

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that I've developed with a mentee.

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So I think when you're open to it.

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That's an incredible way to

build your own development.

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Pamela: Yeah, I love that.

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So this has been a really

good one to record this week.

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And I think this is one that I wish

particularly that as I've been able to

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listen to like early on in my career, I

think it would have been really useful.

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And this is part of what we cover

in our career development workshops

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as well under our catalyst brand.

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So if you are listening to this

and you are thinking that you would

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like to introduce some development

for your teams into your business,

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then do drop us a message and we

can give you all of the information

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on the career development programs

that we run under Catalyst careers.

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So we hope that you found this episode.

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And please do share it with anyone else

that you think might find it useful

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too, let us know if there are any topics

you'd like us to cover on the podcast.

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We always love to hear from you and hear

how you've put into action some of the

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things that you've heard on the podcast.

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And don't forget to rate and review

us on your favorite podcast platforms.

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And we'll be back next

week with another episode.